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Heavy oil=hotter temp? #4455610
07/10/17 06:40 PM
07/10/17 06:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20
marlton, new jersey, usa
chartrue2 Offline OP
chartrue2  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20
marlton, new jersey, usa
Hi all-decided to see what all the heavy oil hype was about and tried it in my 1997 Dodge B2500 van which is a Roadtrek motorhome conversion with a 5.2 (318) engine. Mileage is about 140K and I have always run 10/30W as per specs. I use a Scanguage II to monitor performance. Decided to use 10/40 for the summer months thinking it would offer a little more protection. Usual operating temperatures are around 198 degrees which climbs when pulling mountain grades. Oil pressure is noticeably higher (3/4 on the analog gauge instead of the usual 1/2 way) and temps seem to be consistently higher. Today when pulling a long 6 mile grade up the mountain, the temp rose to 215-218 instead of the usual 204-206. Does the heavier oil (Valvoline MaxLife 10/40) really make that much of a difference???

Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455617
07/10/17 06:47 PM
07/10/17 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,984
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,984
Illinois
Yes, oil temp will be a little higher with thicker oil, and 10-40 will not offer better wear.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455625
07/10/17 07:01 PM
07/10/17 07:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
I sure love the ScanGauge.


Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455718
07/10/17 08:20 PM
07/10/17 08:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline
merconvvv  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa


Found this figure in lubetech article.
Seems like after 30 wt there is very little to gain.

Be interesting to see how the 10w40 does when the weather cools down a bit. Imagine its hot all over.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455751
07/10/17 09:03 PM
07/10/17 09:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,477
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,477
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: chartrue2
Today when pulling a long 6 mile grade up the mountain, the temp rose to 215-218 instead of the usual 204-206. Does the heavier oil (Valvoline MaxLife 10/40) really make that much of a difference???

Yes.There is a difference.
Maxlife 10W40 is 13.94 cSt at 103*C; and
Maxlife 10W30 is 12.00 cSt at 95*C, despite being 8*C cooler.
One vote goes to lower operating temperature..... but at reduced oil film thickness ?

Oh no, 10*C higher temperature in 10W40 would half the oil life of 10W30!!!...... according to experts.
Then OCI 10W40 at 10k and compare against 10W30 OCI at 20k UOA ...... or
OCI 10W40 at 15k against 10W30 at 25k ...... and compare.

Do you need extra thick oil film thickness from 10W40, albeit at higher operating temperatures ?? .........
that's another topic for debate..

Btw,it would be interesting for OP to demonstrate if xW20 operates cooler than 10W30?

Originally Posted By: merconvvv


Found this figure in lubetech article.
Seems like after 30 wt there is very little to gain.


Concur with you, in gasoline engine applications ONLY.......
probably not .. in differential gear or hydraulic applications..... vis-a-vis thick vs thin oil comparisons.

Edit: Add info.

Last edited by zeng; 07/10/17 09:11 PM.
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: zeng] #4455766
07/10/17 09:28 PM
07/10/17 09:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,133
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,133
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: zeng
Btw,it would be interesting for OP to demonstrate if xW20 operates cooler than 10W30?


This is what I'd like to see.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455831
07/10/17 11:52 PM
07/10/17 11:52 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 463
UK
slybunda Offline
slybunda  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 463
UK
I went from 5w30 fuel economy oil hths 3 to 5w40 and the engine heated up faster and ran hotter than on the 30 and ran sluggish too. Ditched the oil in a week and went back to 5w30.


1995 Ford Fiesta 1.6i 16v Si
2000 Toyota Celica 1.8 VVTL-i
2007 Toyota Aygo+ 1.0i
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455844
07/11/17 01:10 AM
07/11/17 01:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,810
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,810
Balearic Islands , Spain
Yes a higher viscosity oil will raise oil temps a bit, no real point in putting in a 10W-40 in the summer really.
Anyway even at 218F you are still in "the safe zone" but i would recomend you either run a 10W-30 or 5W-40 full synthetic oil.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455850
07/11/17 01:35 AM
07/11/17 01:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Does it have a clutch fan ? Maybe it's time for a dual electric fan conversion ...

Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: merconvvv] #4455856
07/11/17 02:03 AM
07/11/17 02:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Olas Offline
Olas  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Originally Posted By: merconvvv


Found this figure in lubetech article.
Seems like after 30 wt there is very little to gain.

Be interesting to see how the 10w40 does when the weather cools down a bit. Imagine its hot all over.


Depends entirely on the engine in question. Some new cars spec 50


Cable ties should hold it
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4455939
07/11/17 06:27 AM
07/11/17 06:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
No discussion of upper ring temps? Long history here on BITOG...


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4456053
07/11/17 09:05 AM
07/11/17 09:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline
merconvvv  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
http://www.lube-media.com/documents/cont...ndlubricity.pdf

Thats the article. I am not an oil expert. I just thought it was interesting. Anyways what iiii gather is that beyond hths of 3.3 or so minimal gains are to be had.
Then you have to add a safety margin to that 3.3 or so.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: Heavy oil=hotter temp? [Re: chartrue2] #4456066
07/11/17 09:19 AM
07/11/17 09:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,439
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,439
New England
Shannow posted excerpts from a study showing the power losses due to oil thickness for a street and a racing engine, a thicker oil will naturally result in a greater loss than a thinner oil under the same operating conditions and the result is hotter oil. I noticed this in my own car when I switched from M1 5W30 (HTHS=3.1) to M1 5W30 ESP (HTHS=3.58) and was alarmed enough to post here asking what was going on...it totally makes sense when you think about it, though.

Shannow also mentioned that the increased temperature will not result in the thicker oil having a lower film thickness than the thinner oil under the same circumstances, there would be no point in using the thicker oil if that weren't the case.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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