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#4454041 - 07/09/17 07:17 AM Castor Racing Oil: How To?
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
So finding out about castor/ester based racing oils for motorcycles, racing carts, and vintage race cars has sparked an interest in me. I ask the members of the board who are familiar with castor, how does one go about blending a quality castor/ester based racing oil? Does castor oil use basic, novel zinc/phosphorus antiwear add packs like it's petroleum derived counterparts? I understand it is very much lacking in detergents and dispersants.

I appreciate any positive input.
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#4454057 - 07/09/17 07:43 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39871
Loc: 'Stralia
If you look up some old works, like

"The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine", by Sir Harry Ricardo (can't find a current link at the present time for a PDF)...

Back in the day, and moving on from steam train lubrication, the mineral oils were found to be "dry" and caused wear. The existing oils, oft based on animal fats were identified as having a characteristic that they termed "oiliness" that formed a surface film that resisted breakdown.

These things were sought for and additised, animal and vegetable compounds being added to the new mineral lubricants.

Traditionally, I don't think that the castor oils had too much added bar anti-oxidants, as the inherent esters were part of the magic.

but in searching I DID find Phil Irving's book http://tuningforspeed.com/files/Tuning_for_Speed.pdf should be in every library...mine has beetroot stains.

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#4454066 - 07/09/17 08:02 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
Thanks Shannow. I downloaded the PDF for Irving's book, and will read it today. In your opinion, is it "easier" to blend a castor based lubricant rather than a petroleum based one? I ask in quotations as I doubt either is truly easy, just in relative speak, would one be simpler and less expensive to produce?
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#4454073 - 07/09/17 08:11 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39871
Loc: 'Stralia
Out of my depth in that request, sorry.

Castor was King for a long time.

I posted in the oil analysis forums some old WWII documents where they were performing analysis on captured oils, and comparing them to their own oils and additives.

Can't find it, seems to have been culled with regard to find times...will try tomorow night.

(Personally I think that castor is dead...but I DO add a little bit of pharmacy grade to my weedwhacker for giggles)

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#4454086 - 07/09/17 08:23 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 2955
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
In a 2T engine, castor has it's place. Way back when troglodytes roamed the earth, high strung, ported to bleeding edge, leaned out air cooled motocross bikes ran castor just to finish a race without seizing. Castor continues to degrade to platelets that allow parts to slide against each other, even when the oil film is low or nearly non existant.
It comes with a price though. Tearing down any engine that has run castor for a while, and it's a sticky, gummed up and carbon infested mess. When 2T went power-valved and water cooled, castor dropped out of favor for cleaner burning petroleum based lubes.
De-gummed castor is better, that's about all you'll find now.
Castor mixes readily with alcohol, so of course experimenters have run castor in alcohol fuels to lube the upper end at very high ratio's, 500:1.
Castor mixes with petroleum as well, it is certainly possible to replace an ounce of the petro oil with an ounce of castor in your simple piston port weed wacker, saw, whatever if you want that smell. But really no benefit in modern times. There was a time when castor was king, but the monarchy is dead.
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#4454134 - 07/09/17 09:26 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
I found an American brand of cart racing Castor oil called Blendzall, made in Ohio. They taut it as degummed castor and ester. It seems there is a market for it, but it's very specific, very much a niche. Essentially though, in just about any highly stressed two or four stroke, dedicated race engine, it could be used, correct? It seems some competitors prefer it.

I just wonder, is there any way to make castor last longer in an internal combustion engine? More ester, perhaps?
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#4454154 - 07/09/17 10:00 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 2955
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
Yep, Blendzall is one.
Klotz still makes castor lubes also.
Shell M is available overseas for shipping to the states. Check out eBay.
Maxima 927.
Elf Nitron Blue for 4 stroke bikes.
Castor is out there.
Who knows, as a renewable source of lubrication, perhaps it will recycle back around someday.
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beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.

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#4454162 - 07/09/17 10:13 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16823
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
The Banshee crowd will only use Caster based oil in them at the dunes.
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#4454168 - 07/09/17 10:24 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
For 2-stroke engines that see regular use, it has its points..... but don't EVER let an engine sit for a long period of time - the castor oil oxidizes and turns into GLUE! It's Very, very difficult to disassemble an engine like this. Nothing that resembles any kind of penetrating oil will work at all. Even harsh solvents barely soak in.
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#4454195 - 07/09/17 10:58 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: beanoil]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Yep, Blendzall is one.
Klotz still makes castor lubes also.
Shell M is available overseas for shipping to the states. Check out eBay.
Maxima 927.
Elf Nitron Blue for 4 stroke bikes.
Castor is out there.
Who knows, as a renewable source of lubrication, perhaps it will recycle back around someday.


Perhaps I should purchase a sample of each of these and have them analyzed.

OK, as far as blending your own, does anyone know the basics? What machinery/equipment is involved? Would one be better off pressing their own beans, or purchasing prepressed?
_________________________
'89 Chevy 1500
Napa 20/50
'15 Chevy Cruze
AcDelco syn dexos 5/30

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#4454198 - 07/09/17 10:59 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Linctex]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
Yes, everything I read is adamant about NOT storing an engine with this oil.
_________________________
'89 Chevy 1500
Napa 20/50
'15 Chevy Cruze
AcDelco syn dexos 5/30

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#4454205 - 07/09/17 11:12 AM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
justintendo Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 101
Loc: northwest pa
i can vouch for good results using klotz super techniplate for years in all my lawn equipment and dirt bikes. havent had problems letting them sit during the winter.
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#4454224 - 07/09/17 12:03 PM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: justintendo]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
Is your equipment a mix of two and four stroke? Just curious.
_________________________
'89 Chevy 1500
Napa 20/50
'15 Chevy Cruze
AcDelco syn dexos 5/30

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#4454237 - 07/09/17 12:22 PM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 9568
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
I loved the smell of 2cyc racing outboard engines running nitro and castor bean oil. Ed
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#4454283 - 07/09/17 01:38 PM Re: Castor Racing Oil: How To? [Re: Red91]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
I just found Fuch's Silkolene Castorene R40 and R40S. Apparently the R40 is a classic bike and car four stroke oil, and claims itself compatible with alcohol based fuel and gasoline. The R40S is aimed more at modern racing carts and bikes with four cycle engines. the R40S seems to be fully synthetic whereas the R40 is not.
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Napa 20/50
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AcDelco syn dexos 5/30

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