Wrong Oil Filter

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
510
Location
Tennessee
I recently purchased a 2002 Ford Expedition with the 4.6 V-8. Changed the oil and filter today and discovered that the old filter was significantly smaller than the new filter. The old filter had been in place for 5000 miles.

Went to Fram's website and compared the specs. The small filter is rated at 10-12 gpm flow and relief valve setting of 9-12 psi. The correct filter was rated at 11-13 gpm and relief of 12 psi.

Thread size was identical and gasket size was within about 1 mm. The small filter was not leaking when removed.

The new filter is speced for many GM and Dodge vehicles, among others. Some of the models include the GM 5.3 and Dodge 5.7 V-8's.

Being smaller, it was certainly easier to remove. With the large filter the front wheels have to be turned to clear the pitman arm.

Any reason I shouldn't use the smaller filter going forward?
 
What you were seeing is the new Ford filter alot of oil change places are using. I think it's the FL500 filter.
It's sort of a one filter fits all Fords so it cuts on inventory. Being that I had alot of 4.6 L Fords. The 820S is the correct filter but the new smaller filter will suffice. I found out about all this when I bought my Ford F150 with the 5.4 L engine and found the small filter and was exactly like you [censored]. I researched it and it's what I found out.
 
On Fram's site, it doesn't list any Ford applications for the small filter. Part # is PH10060. Mostly GM, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, and several other makes. But no Ford's, not that it really matters.
 
Last edited:
FL-820S is the filter you should be using. A lot of quick lubes use the equivalent of the FL-500S. FWIW we have had a couple engines go south that had the wrong filter installed by a quick lube and the quick lube ended up paying for it. Ford's opinion was the wrong filter was installed regardless of what their interchange said.
 
The "FL-500" size filter you took off (Fram TG and XG 10575) will eventually phase out the FL-820 size filter (Fram TG2 and XG2)

You have nothing to worry about.
The smaller filter is used on the Coyote engines in the Mustangs - your engine puts out maybe 1/3 the HP theirs do!

Here's a TG10575 (the small one you have nothing to worry about) that was run for 15,000 miles:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4426839/
 
Last edited:
I don't think they will phase out the XG2/820s type filters because now that Dodge switched to metric threads that's also the same filter for thier Hemi line of motors.
 
I have a company truck with the 4.6 motor and have to get the oil changed at Firestone and it's the small filter in it. 230,000 miles and still going but also a reason I like changing my own oil too.
 
^^^^^^
The last time I used Firestone, they used the wrong viscosity oil. They also used a Firestone TF-4651. It was my first eCore on the Ranger. Firestone did make it right. I don't trust them any more.

The eCore with combo valve loses ADBV function in less than 3000 miles. The Ranger does not seem to care.

I think your 4.6L would do better with an independent ADBV.
 
Buy some fl 820s at walmart and carry them in the vehicle.
Thats what i do. They are a bargain. Pain to get on off sometimes.
Smaller one probably a lot easier.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I don't think they will phase out the XG2/820s type filters because now that Dodge switched to metric threads that's also the same filter for thier Hemi line of motors.


All the Hemi 5.7 and 6.4's with the exception of a few SRT engines, have gone over to a smaller FRAM PH10060 size equivalent filter. FL820 may fit and is what I ran in my 2015 RAM, but it is not cataloged for FCA Hemi engines.
 
Only true for 2013 and later MY Ram Hemi with electric power steering. My 2012 MY Ram Hemi and earlier years not spec'd for the MO-090 (PH16 equivalent) are spec'd for MO -899 (PH2 equivalent) I think it was 2009 MY the switch from SAE thread to metric thread began.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Only true for 2013 and later MY Ram Hemi with electric power steering. My 2012 MY Ram Hemi and earlier years not spec'd for the MO-090 (PH16 equivalent) are spec'd for MO -899 (PH2 equivalent) I think it was 2009 MY the switch from SAE thread to metric thread began.


Our '08 Jeep Commander 4.7 has the metric threads so it takes the MO-899 and equivalents (FL820S, PH2, etc.) The owner's manual states that as well. Maybe '08 was a transition year as I have seen application listings showing both the SAE and metric threaded filters for '08 on the 4.7 and 5.7.
 
So with the PH8A & XG8A being produced with no FCA vehicles having been spec'd with that filter for quite a while now, I personally have no worries about PH2 & XG2 filters being phased out soon. It's happened with some installer lines but at Fram the FP2 & FPS2 still exist for now as well.
 
Yes, when I meant "Phased out" I meant at the lube shops, since they want to stock fewer filters that fit multiple vehicles. Manufacturers will continue to make them.

Millions of vehicles,
including yours,
have made their way through lube shops and exit the doors with an oil filter that is a different size than what it came in with.
It's really NOT hurting your engine, though.
 
Except Fram produces the FP2 & FPS2 for lube shops, not requiring a FL-500s size filter for this application. So "replacing" the PH2 / XG2 with a smaller filter at lube shops is not a plank of Fram's manufacturing strategy. However a lube shop can forgo purchasing filters in this size as the shop's perogative regardless of filter brand.
 
Last edited:
Plus the Fram PH10060 has nothing to do with the Motorcraft FL-500S filter. Look at "Competitor Comparison" and you'll see the Mopar MO-339 listed, but not the Motorcraft FL-500S.

http://www.fram.com/Search-Parts/Part-Detail?PN=PH10060

Fram's cross for the FL-500S is the PH10575, STP'S cross is S10590, and Walmart Supertech's cross is ST10086. Three brands using the Fram numbering system, but three different sets of numbers for applications calling for the Motorcraft FL-500S.

Some installer brands have eliminated manufacturing certain sizes. There is no more production of Quaker State QS2 / Pennzoil PZ-42 / Performax PO-42 oil filters. Instead those have been superceded by the Quaker State QS-173 / Pennzoil PZ-173 / Performax PO-173.

But not Fram.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top