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VAG 502 vs 504 #4453292
07/08/17 11:02 AM
07/08/17 11:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Online content OP
Bailes1992  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
My wife drives a 2013 VW Polo with a 1.2 12v 3 cylinder engine that she drives reasonably hard (hey, it's got 60hp, it's flat out or nothing).

The car has just shy of 30k on the clock and it does around 5,000miles a year. Her daily commute is appropriately 5 miles to work and 5 miles home again through a mix of 30mph and 60mph roads.

I do 6 month oil changes on it (well, I've done one so far as we've only had the car 8 months) and noticed everything inside the engine seems to have an orange tinge/varnish to it. I changed the oil 2 months ago and it's done about 800 miles since and the new oil has turned to a very dark amber colour very quickly.

Looking at the previous service history it has been serviced every 10k or 1 year as per the manufacturers specification by VW and has had a mix of 502 or 504 oil (unsure of viscosity). I guess they used whatever the mechanic fancied on that day.

I know 504 only seems to come as a 5w30 but 502 comes in 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, 0w40 and 10w40.

Ambient temperatures bottom out about -10c (14F) with a maximum of around 30c (86F).

So what would you use and why? And what viscosity?

At the moment I'm thinking M1 New Life/Turbo Diesel 0w40 (502/505) or M1 ESP 5w30 (504/507).


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453330
07/08/17 11:39 AM
07/08/17 11:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
...and noticed everything inside the engine seems to have an orange tinge/varnish to it. I changed the oil 2 months ago and it's done about 800 miles since and the new oil has turned to a very dark amber colour very quickly.


It sounds like the oil you are using now has more detergents in it than whatever it was filled with earlier.

I wouldn't be alarmed.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453339
07/08/17 11:45 AM
07/08/17 11:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,451
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,451
Indiana
I would use a 502 just as a guess, but what does the owners manual say?

The grade doesn't matter as long as it's 502 compliant.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: dlundblad] #4453353
07/08/17 11:58 AM
07/08/17 11:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Online content OP
Bailes1992  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
...and noticed everything inside the engine seems to have an orange tinge/varnish to it. I changed the oil 2 months ago and it's done about 800 miles since and the new oil has turned to a very dark amber colour very quickly.


It sounds like the oil you are using now has more detergents in it than whatever it was filled with earlier.

I wouldn't be alarmed.


I guessed that was the case. I only used a supermarket brand fully syntehtic 5w40 meeting VW 502/505 specification. I have another gallon of the same oil here so maybe I should change it out again? Actually I have a Total Rubia 8900 10w30 HDEO here, maybe it would be worth doing a short interval on it to try clean the varnish up a bit.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I would use a 502 just as a guess, but what does the owners manual say?

The grade doesn't matter as long as it's 502 compliant.


VW say 502 for 10k/1 year servicing and 504 for longlife 'variable' servicing.

The car is set to fixed servicing but if 504 is a superior oil and is only marginally more expensive then I might as well use it. But would a *w40 with a 502 specification offer better protection? The 504 is only available as a 5w30 and is a mid-saps/ACEA C3 oil.


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453405
07/08/17 12:51 PM
07/08/17 12:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,451
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,451
Indiana
What do they mean by variable servicing? Will it get changed more frequently than 10k?

That tells me even VW knows a 502 would be better. I don't know much about the whole full and mid SAPS oils, but I've always been under the impression a full SAPS oil would be more robust.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453444
07/08/17 01:46 PM
07/08/17 01:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Online content OP
Bailes1992  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Variable servicing is a maximum of 2 year intervals. It monitors the way the car is driven to work out when the oil is to be changed.


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453454
07/08/17 01:58 PM
07/08/17 01:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
maybe it would be worth doing a short interval on it to try clean the varnish up a bit.


I honestly don't think that's necessary.

How many miles/KM are driven in a year?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453489
07/08/17 02:28 PM
07/08/17 02:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,201
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Online sick
Kamele0N  Online Sick
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,201
Slovenia EU
Duuude...its 1.2 litre N/A engine...please dont overthink things here smile

Here in EU (ok you are out of it now...you you infidels smile ) every 10w40 or 5w40 oil meets vw502 certificate...

If you are concerned because of "severe" usage...just use whatever synthetic oil that is available where you live....in your case that would be anything with 5w40 or 5w30 on a label smile


2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453575
07/08/17 04:21 PM
07/08/17 04:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Online content OP
Bailes1992  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Actually that's a good point. I have several litres of Chevron Supreme 10w40 Semi-Synth left that I used to use in my Defender 300TDI.
It's fairly cheap to buy at 40 for 20 litres and I'm sure it's 502/505 rated too. maybe for maximum 4k OCIs it's an ideal oil to use.


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4453607
07/08/17 05:05 PM
07/08/17 05:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,239
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
maybe for maximum 4k OCIs it's an ideal oil to use.


It's probably good for longer than that.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4454036
07/09/17 07:04 AM
07/09/17 07:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
VW 504 / 507 (low SAPS) is the newer spec that replaces the older 502 / 505 (high SAPS) spec. Both will work fine in your car.

The newer VW 504 oil does set a high standard, I've only seen full synthetic oils meet it and I think it is very similar to the Porsche C30 spec. The older 502 spec can be met by cheaper semi-synthetic oils.

You really have three choices:
- VW 502, cheap version, like a semi-synthetic 10W40
- VW 502, expensive version, full synthetic, like Castrol Edge or M1 0W-40 (also carry other OEM like BMW LL-01 etc)
- VW 504 only expensive as a full synthetic 5W30

Sounds like you have a bit of varnish in the engine, that is not a problem, and the new oil is cleaning it up a bit.

For 6 months oil changes it shouldn't matter, but for 1 year I would get a full synthetic (504 or 502).

If you find a good deal on a 504, jump on it, as it is a very high quality oil spec.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4454153
07/09/17 10:00 AM
07/09/17 10:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
I would recommend the newer 504 spec. I posted a list of many 5W-30 oils that meet the spec here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4450995/2017_Jetta_TSI_SE_1.4L_Turbo


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4454874
07/10/17 01:16 AM
07/10/17 01:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Online content OP
Bailes1992  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
If 504 is the better specification and will offer better protection then I'll use it. I may even push the boat out and leave it in there for a whole 12 months!


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4454889
07/10/17 02:21 AM
07/10/17 02:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,100
Kuwait
Falcon_LS Offline
Falcon_LS  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,100
Kuwait
Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP is a very good oil. It is expensive, but worth the money IMHO. My other suggestion would be Petronas Syntium 7000 0W-40, which is a PAO based lubricant.

As far as the internals go, you might want to get a can of MPEX Engine Flush from your local Halford's and use it before your oil change.


99 Explorer: H17W02/GC 0W40
00 Pajero: XG9688/MC 15W40
01 Grand Marquis: XG2/XCess 5W40
03 Expedition SSV: XG2/XCess 5W40
05 Envoy: XG9837/5W30 ESP
06 XJ8L: C2C41611/5W30 ESP
07 SRX: XG8765/5W30 ESP
Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992] #4454905
07/10/17 04:04 AM
07/10/17 04:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Online content OP
Bailes1992  Online Content OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 154
South Wales, UK
I can get 5 litres of ESP for 35 so not hugley expensive. New Life 0w40 comes in at 30 for 5 litres.

Sounds like any quality branded synthetic 502 or 504 oil would suffice for 12 months/5k OCIs.

Just want to get rid of this orange varnish inside the motor. It's been serviced every 8-9k at 1 year intervals since new so amazed it's even happened.

I am thinking of trying ESP in my Focus next so maybe it's an opportunity to use the same oil for both.

Last edited by Bailes1992; 07/10/17 04:05 AM.

'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
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