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#4453292 - 07/08/17 11:02 AM VAG 502 vs 504
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
My wife drives a 2013 VW Polo with a 1.2 12v 3 cylinder engine that she drives reasonably hard (hey, it's got 60hp, it's flat out or nothing).

The car has just shy of 30k on the clock and it does around 5,000miles a year. Her daily commute is appropriately 5 miles to work and 5 miles home again through a mix of 30mph and 60mph roads.

I do 6 month oil changes on it (well, I've done one so far as we've only had the car 8 months) and noticed everything inside the engine seems to have an orange tinge/varnish to it. I changed the oil 2 months ago and it's done about 800 miles since and the new oil has turned to a very dark amber colour very quickly.

Looking at the previous service history it has been serviced every 10k or 1 year as per the manufacturers specification by VW and has had a mix of 502 or 504 oil (unsure of viscosity). I guess they used whatever the mechanic fancied on that day.

I know 504 only seems to come as a 5w30 but 502 comes in 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, 0w40 and 10w40.

Ambient temperatures bottom out about -10°c (14°F) with a maximum of around 30°c (86°F).

So what would you use and why? And what viscosity?

At the moment I'm thinking M1 New Life/Turbo Diesel 0w40 (502/505) or M1 ESP 5w30 (504/507).
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4453330 - 07/08/17 11:39 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
...and noticed everything inside the engine seems to have an orange tinge/varnish to it. I changed the oil 2 months ago and it's done about 800 miles since and the new oil has turned to a very dark amber colour very quickly.


It sounds like the oil you are using now has more detergents in it than whatever it was filled with earlier.

I wouldn't be alarmed.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4453339 - 07/08/17 11:45 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10063
Loc: Indiana
I would use a 502 just as a guess, but what does the owners manual say?

The grade doesn't matter as long as it's 502 compliant.
_________________________
03 Jeep WJ 4.0 199k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 145k Rotella T5 10w30 Fram TG3980


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#4453353 - 07/08/17 11:58 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: dlundblad]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
...and noticed everything inside the engine seems to have an orange tinge/varnish to it. I changed the oil 2 months ago and it's done about 800 miles since and the new oil has turned to a very dark amber colour very quickly.


It sounds like the oil you are using now has more detergents in it than whatever it was filled with earlier.

I wouldn't be alarmed.


I guessed that was the case. I only used a supermarket brand fully syntehtic 5w40 meeting VW 502/505 specification. I have another gallon of the same oil here so maybe I should change it out again? Actually I have a Total Rubia 8900 10w30 HDEO here, maybe it would be worth doing a short interval on it to try clean the varnish up a bit.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I would use a 502 just as a guess, but what does the owners manual say?

The grade doesn't matter as long as it's 502 compliant.


VW say 502 for 10k/1 year servicing and 504 for longlife 'variable' servicing.

The car is set to fixed servicing but if 504 is a superior oil and is only marginally more expensive then I might as well use it. But would a *w40 with a 502 specification offer better protection? The 504 is only available as a 5w30 and is a mid-saps/ACEA C3 oil.
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4453405 - 07/08/17 12:51 PM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10063
Loc: Indiana
What do they mean by variable servicing? Will it get changed more frequently than 10k?

That tells me even VW knows a 502 would be better. I don't know much about the whole full and mid SAPS oils, but I've always been under the impression a full SAPS oil would be more robust.
_________________________
03 Jeep WJ 4.0 199k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 145k Rotella T5 10w30 Fram TG3980


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#4453444 - 07/08/17 01:46 PM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
Variable servicing is a maximum of 2 year intervals. It monitors the way the car is driven to work out when the oil is to be changed.
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4453454 - 07/08/17 01:58 PM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
maybe it would be worth doing a short interval on it to try clean the varnish up a bit.


I honestly don't think that's necessary.

How many miles/KM are driven in a year?
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4453489 - 07/08/17 02:28 PM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2054
Loc: Slovenia
Duuude...its 1.2 litre N/A engine...please dont overthink things here smile

Here in EU (ok you are out of it now...you you infidels smile ) every 10w40 or 5w40 oil meets vw502 certificate...

If you are concerned because of "severe" usage...just use whatever synthetic oil that is available where you live....in your case that would be anything with 5w40 or 5w30 on a label smile
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD various 10w40

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#4453575 - 07/08/17 04:21 PM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
Actually that's a good point. I have several litres of Chevron Supreme 10w40 Semi-Synth left that I used to use in my Defender 300TDI.
It's fairly cheap to buy at £40 for 20 litres and I'm sure it's 502/505 rated too. maybe for maximum 4k OCIs it's an ideal oil to use.
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4453607 - 07/08/17 05:05 PM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
maybe for maximum 4k OCIs it's an ideal oil to use.


It's probably good for longer than that.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4454036 - 07/09/17 07:04 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4474
Loc: Down Under
VW 504 / 507 (low SAPS) is the newer spec that replaces the older 502 / 505 (high SAPS) spec. Both will work fine in your car.

The newer VW 504 oil does set a high standard, I've only seen full synthetic oils meet it and I think it is very similar to the Porsche C30 spec. The older 502 spec can be met by cheaper semi-synthetic oils.

You really have three choices:
- VW 502, cheap version, like a semi-synthetic 10W40
- VW 502, expensive version, full synthetic, like Castrol Edge or M1 0W-40 (also carry other OEM like BMW LL-01 etc)
- VW 504 only expensive as a full synthetic 5W30

Sounds like you have a bit of varnish in the engine, that is not a problem, and the new oil is cleaning it up a bit.

For 6 months oil changes it shouldn't matter, but for 1 year I would get a full synthetic (504 or 502).

If you find a good deal on a 504, jump on it, as it is a very high quality oil spec.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4454153 - 07/09/17 10:00 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1231
Loc: Oregon
I would recommend the newer 504 spec. I posted a list of many 5W-30 oils that meet the spec here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4450995/2017_Jetta_TSI_SE_1.4L_Turbo
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4454874 - 07/10/17 01:16 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
If 504 is the better specification and will offer better protection then I'll use it. I may even push the boat out and leave it in there for a whole 12 months!
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4454889 - 07/10/17 02:21 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Falcon_LS Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 4058
Loc: Kuwait
Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP is a very good oil. It is expensive, but worth the money IMHO. My other suggestion would be Petronas Syntium 7000 0W-40, which is a PAO based lubricant.

As far as the internals go, you might want to get a can of MPEX Engine Flush from your local Halford's and use it before your oil change.
_________________________
99 Explorer: XG8A/GC 0W40
00 Pajero: XG9688/MC 15W40
01 Grand Marquis: XG2/XCess 5W40
03 Expedition SSV: XG2/XCess 5W40
05 Envoy: XG9837/5W30 ESP
06 XJ8L: C2C41611/5W30 ESP
07 SRX: XG8765/5W30 ESP

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#4454905 - 07/10/17 04:04 AM Re: VAG 502 vs 504 [Re: Bailes1992]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
I can get 5 litres of ESP for £35 so not hugley expensive. New Life 0w40 comes in at £30 for 5 litres.

Sounds like any quality branded synthetic 502 or 504 oil would suffice for 12 months/5k OCIs.

Just want to get rid of this orange varnish inside the motor. It's been serviced every 8-9k at 1 year intervals since new so amazed it's even happened.

I am thinking of trying ESP in my Focus next so maybe it's an opportunity to use the same oil for both.


Edited by Bailes1992 (07/10/17 04:05 AM)
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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