Recent Topics
Meijer QSUD Full Syn 10w30 $8.11 5qt jug
by Spartanfool. 09/22/18 08:40 PM
Whats in your beef burger
by CourierDriver. 09/22/18 08:28 PM
Headlight brightness fluctuates on 1987 Golf
by vavavroom. 09/22/18 07:56 PM
"New" Beater
by SilverGt. 09/22/18 07:22 PM
Eschewing computer controls
by buck91. 09/22/18 06:41 PM
Leak/drip left front 13 Ram 4x4?
by irv. 09/22/18 06:22 PM
5w20 oil choices
by 53' Stude. 09/22/18 06:05 PM
site security
by RF Overlord. 09/22/18 06:02 PM
Richmond Raceway
by Warstud. 09/22/18 06:01 PM
Redline D6 ATF substituting for Toyota WS
by Patrick0525. 09/22/18 05:29 PM
XG3614 Cut Open 13,400kms (8,375mi)
by mcwilly. 09/22/18 05:25 PM
Torn Purolators: they DO TEAR!
by 53' Stude. 09/22/18 05:07 PM
transmission fluid and filter exchange
by Dennisistheman. 09/22/18 04:53 PM
Why people should change oil+filter!
by 53' Stude. 09/22/18 04:50 PM
Household lubricants (general purpose) differences
by 92saturnsl2. 09/22/18 04:35 PM
debris in my engine oil--what to do?
by Jasper8146. 09/22/18 03:50 PM
Is this seal bad?
by parshisa. 09/22/18 03:44 PM
Leather Masters Protection Cream review....
by gregk24. 09/22/18 03:13 PM
Aisin WS
by RodneyM. 09/22/18 03:11 PM
Husqvarna trimmer questions
by BrianF. 09/22/18 02:51 PM
Newest Members
HondaTech250, SandCruzer, sbgti96, cosmoblau, Sarrge
66044 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
84 registered members (92saturnsl2, aquariuscsm, Ben Boyle, 53' Stude, A310, bdcardinal, 12 invisible), 1,534 guests, and 40 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,852
Posts4,851,452
Members66,044
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Personal Breakthrough at the Range #4452228
07/07/17 10:55 AM
07/07/17 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
This past weekend, I went to the range to practice and test some reloads. A few weeks before that, as I shot the last few rounds of the day, I had an ah ha moment. I was jerking the gun as I anticipated the recoil. I know it's a pretty well known issue, but I'd watched many youtube videos and spent many hours dry firing with the laser cartridge to the point that I though I wasn't doing it.

I noticed as I concentrated to pull the trigger smoothly and truly let the gun surprise me when the round fired, I could see muzzle flip. Previously, as I got to the point where the trigger was about to break, I would anticipate the shot, jerking the gun down, and the picture looked completely different as the muzzle never flipped up because I was already fighting the recoil/flip.

I know this is nothing new to most everyone, but it was a breakthrough for me. I spent the entire time at the range this past weekend paying more attention to my shooting and did MUCH better than I ever had. The targets below are not be super great (about 8 yards), but they're 2-3 times tighter than my previous trips, plus previously the "group" was always scattered on the bottom left (classic trigger jerk symptom). If I recall correctly, the right target was shot with my G19, the one on the left with the G19 and G20.

One thing that's new to me is that I think I understand a little better some of the complaints about Glock triggers. As I smoothly pulled the trigger, I noticed distinct rough patches in the take up that threw my sights slightly off as I had to change the force on the trigger (I assume that's where the safeties are disengaged). I had previously performed the 25 cent trigger job, but I might do it again now that I better understand the mechanics.

Anyhow, thanks for listening to my ramble!


Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452284
07/07/17 12:06 PM
07/07/17 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,223
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline
Al  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,223
Elizabethtown, Pa
Honestly though if you shoot a glock you are not "target shooting". The idea in SD shooting is not make love to the trigger..you pull it...quickly.
You will know if you are "getting there" if you can put say 6 shots in a 6"circle in 6 seconds at 25 feet. At that point you can actually "feel" you are reasonably trained to come out on top in concealed carry in an SD event.

Looks like you got a start!!

Last edited by Al; 07/07/17 12:07 PM.

Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452298
07/07/17 12:37 PM
07/07/17 12:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline
paulri  Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
Looks like you would give an intruder a personal breakthrough...somewhere in the upper chest area.

Good job.


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452361
07/07/17 01:41 PM
07/07/17 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
MarcS Offline
MarcS  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
Some of the best advice I can give someone who wants to shoot fast and accurate is to work on grip strength as you work on the basics. This idea of a "surprise break" and imperfections in the trigger pull isn't as import once you can really control the guns movement.

Last edited by MarcS; 07/07/17 01:46 PM.
Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452384
07/07/17 02:18 PM
07/07/17 02:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,943
PV Az
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,943
PV Az
Worship the front sight.


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: Al] #4452385
07/07/17 02:23 PM
07/07/17 02:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
Thanks for the comments, guys!


Originally Posted By: Al
Honestly though if you shoot a glock you are not "target shooting". The idea in SD shooting is not make love to the trigger..you pull it...quickly.
You will know if you are "getting there" if you can put say 6 shots in a 6"circle in 6 seconds at 25 feet. At that point you can actually "feel" you are reasonably trained to come out on top in concealed carry in an SD event.

Looks like you got a start!!


Yeah, I still have a long way to go. I definitely had to slow things way down to get the surprise break. I'd like to work on speeding that up while keeping the sights on target.



Originally Posted By: MarcS
Some of the best advice I can give someone who wants to shoot fast and accurate is to work on grip strength as you work on the basics. This idea of a "surprise break" and imperfections in the trigger pull isn't as import once you can really control the guns movement.


That's interesting that you mention grip strength. I noticed some sore muscles in my right hand earlier this week that were new to me.

Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452424
07/07/17 03:11 PM
07/07/17 03:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,223
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline
Al  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,223
Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted By: EdwardC



Originally Posted By: MarcS
Some of the best advice I can give someone who wants to shoot fast and accurate is to work on grip strength as you work on the basics. This idea of a "surprise break" and imperfections in the trigger pull isn't as import once you can really control the guns movement.


That's interesting that you mention grip strength. I noticed some sore muscles in my right hand earlier this week that were new to me.

MarcS is exactly right on his advice. Tight high grip, both arms totally stretched out, crouuch way down keeping left foot front, get the head down so you see through the sight, when you push out the firearm to shoot SD get your front sight on the threat even before your arms are stretched out, pull the trigger straight back finger stays on trigger as long as firearm is pointed at threat.

Forget totally the "surprise break"

I pay dearly for this advice every month..free for you..lol

You will feel your marksman ship is going backwards...for like months even if you shoot a lot. But it recovers..and you are better off.

Last edited by Al; 07/07/17 03:14 PM.

Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452440
07/07/17 03:33 PM
07/07/17 03:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 201
Georgia, USA
HouseTiger Offline
HouseTiger  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 201
Georgia, USA
For anyone fortunate enough to have either trained on the M14 or own a Springfield M1A (or similar platform) you'll experience the two stage trigger and the reset.

Transpose it from the rifle to the Glock and things will fall into place nicely.

Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452463
07/07/17 04:07 PM
07/07/17 04:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
NStuart Offline
NStuart  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
A few years ago I did some training with a guy named Todd who is in Georgia he is one of the lead firearm Trainers for the ATF in a town nearby. I have also trained with a guy who is sponsored by Smith & Wesson and,other, he has traveled all over the world in shooting competitions. I am not the greatest shot in the world by any means one piece of advice I can give is this

Practice your follow-up shot by not letting the trigger out all the way find where your trigger resets so you do not have to do a full second trigger pull beat that into your brain.
Happy target practice none of us will ever be as good as the next guy

Last edited by NStuart; 07/07/17 04:09 PM.

Detroit14l 1m75k mi bp schaffer9k 30k oil
96 ram 5.9 gas 80k built tranny 5k m1
85 cj7 4.2 performance build. Schaeffer 9000
08 cbr600rr graffiti. T6
08 husky sm610 t6
Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: NStuart] #4452552
07/07/17 05:44 PM
07/07/17 05:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,223
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline
Al  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,223
Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted By: NStuart

Practice your follow-up shot by not letting the trigger out all the way find where your trigger resets so you do not have to do a full second trigger pull beat that into your brain.

yup..so many things to learn as you try to unlearn bad habits. frown


Re: Personal Breakthrough at the Range [Re: EdwardC] #4452577
07/07/17 06:12 PM
07/07/17 06:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
Thanks again, guys! Fortunately (I think), I'm fairly new enough to shooting (only for about a year and a half now) so hopefully those bad habits aren't too engrained. Luckily, I've learned to keep the trigger held after the shot so I only need to let it out to where it resets. I can probably still be faster on that too though.

I will have to work on not thinking of it as a surprise break, it's probably just a conceptual stop gap for me to get to the real issue of a smoother, more controlled trigger pull. Again, more stuff for me to work on!


BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™