I was musing about tire wear while driving home from work today and it occurred to me that in a perfect world, one would rotate tires exactly four times over the life of a tire. My thinking is that if it's rotated, say, 6 times over the life of the tire, the wear will not be even at the tire's end of life, and thus it could have lasted a bit longer if the wear was more even. Given that OEM tires seem to last only about 28-30K for many people, that would equate to 7K - 7.5K per rotation. On the other hand, if one bought a set of tires that was expected to last, say, 50K miles, the ideal rotation frequency would be 12.5K miles. Is there a flaw in my logic?
"Optimal" Tire Rotation = 1/4 of Expected Life?
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That's what I do. Rotate every oil change at 5K miles. I usually get 20-22K out of a set of tires on the Mustang.
I'm of BMW's opinion that rotation should only be done to save tires under bad alignment conditions.
I have a car with staggered that can't rotate; a X1 s28i with 225/45r18 and 255/40r18 tires.
Rears wear faster, so I'll get new set when they are really worn.
My other car, RX8 has had good alignment, and wears very even.
Times that I rotated seemed to upset tires; they have to wear in at new angle.
Discount tire will rotate my new Michelin PSS set for free if I wanted it.
I realize that 30k warranty is dependent on them rotating, but I wouldn't push that warranty.
I know the mileage will be my doing.
I have a car with staggered that can't rotate; a X1 s28i with 225/45r18 and 255/40r18 tires.
Rears wear faster, so I'll get new set when they are really worn.
My other car, RX8 has had good alignment, and wears very even.
Times that I rotated seemed to upset tires; they have to wear in at new angle.
Discount tire will rotate my new Michelin PSS set for free if I wanted it.
I realize that 30k warranty is dependent on them rotating, but I wouldn't push that warranty.
I know the mileage will be my doing.
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JHZR2
Staff member
We typically get around 80,000 miles out of a set of tires. I rotate them generally when I remember which is somewhere between 10 and 20,000 miles, sometimes skipping once or twice.
Optimally I think you would rotate as often as possible so that the difference in trade would be as small as possible from axle to axle. Assuming there is a consistent wear difference, optimally you rotate your tires every time you drive the car.
Optimally I think you would rotate as often as possible so that the difference in trade would be as small as possible from axle to axle. Assuming there is a consistent wear difference, optimally you rotate your tires every time you drive the car.
I muse (without much to back it up) that wear accellerates once it's been bad for a while. So very frequent rotation might stave off feathering etc which is hard to fix once it starts.
That said I'm lazy and wait for summer/ winter changeover and throw the slightly deeper tread up front.
That said I'm lazy and wait for summer/ winter changeover and throw the slightly deeper tread up front.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
That said I'm lazy and wait for summer/ winter changeover and throw the slightly deeper tread up front.
Not lazy, efficient! I do the same on the Focus as all my tires are directional for it.
That said I'm lazy and wait for summer/ winter changeover and throw the slightly deeper tread up front.
Not lazy, efficient! I do the same on the Focus as all my tires are directional for it.
Hmmm.. I rotate every 5-7k miles. Ive got 37k on my current set and hope they last for 50k. I have rotated more than 4 times now...
Been lazy in the past about rotations. Usually 2-4 per tire set getting 40K-65K miles. This last set I'm doing every 6K-7K and seeing how they make out. Up to 24K miles so far. The UV cracking may end up taking them out first.
All depends on the cost of rotation to me. Original tires get rotated when I measure a tread depth difference of 3/32 inch and of course I pay for these rotation. On placement tires with free rotation every 7,500? miles, I get them rotated at 7,500-8,000 miles which equates to the Tombos comment of 1/4 life. Ed
the issue is the purpose of rotating tires is not for performance but to eek out the last bit of tire life. when you rotate tires the tires contact patch is decreased. you can think of it like grating carrots and you turn the carrot the other way so you dont end up with the triangle chunk at the end.
so for the hypothetical posed by the OP the problem with the strategy is it is trying to minimize the rotations which means at the time of rotation the contact patch reduction is going to be more pronounced than if you rotated for an 8x cycle for example.
so for the hypothetical posed by the OP the problem with the strategy is it is trying to minimize the rotations which means at the time of rotation the contact patch reduction is going to be more pronounced than if you rotated for an 8x cycle for example.
I "rotate" tyres by putting the better tread at the back at the start of the rainy season , since that's supposed to reduce your chances of a spin.
The rainy season is not so clear-cut with current climate, but still roughly corresponding to "summer", as in now.
The back wears less since its a FWD, so at the start of the dry season, roughly corresponding to "not summer" (I'm from Scotland, so I can't really call it winter) I move the better tread to the front, because tread depth now doesn't matter much, and it'll get more wear.
Main objective is optimising grip. Wear evening-out is secondary. Interval is seasonally determined.
The rainy season is not so clear-cut with current climate, but still roughly corresponding to "summer", as in now.
The back wears less since its a FWD, so at the start of the dry season, roughly corresponding to "not summer" (I'm from Scotland, so I can't really call it winter) I move the better tread to the front, because tread depth now doesn't matter much, and it'll get more wear.
Main objective is optimising grip. Wear evening-out is secondary. Interval is seasonally determined.
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Originally Posted By: tombo
Given that OEM tires seem to last only about 28-30K for many people, that would equate to 7K - 7.5K per rotation. On the other hand, if one bought a set of tires that was expected to last, say, 50K miles, the ideal rotation frequency would be 12.5K miles. Is there a flaw in my logic?
Ginormous flaw is disregarding the different physics at each corner and how it influences relative wear rate. Starting a wear pattern and not correcting it before it goes too far is what this thinking leads to. The "carrot" analogy above by raytsengwas brilliant. Every few thousand is optimal, and varies by tire type and vehicle. No set rule.
Given that OEM tires seem to last only about 28-30K for many people, that would equate to 7K - 7.5K per rotation. On the other hand, if one bought a set of tires that was expected to last, say, 50K miles, the ideal rotation frequency would be 12.5K miles. Is there a flaw in my logic?
Ginormous flaw is disregarding the different physics at each corner and how it influences relative wear rate. Starting a wear pattern and not correcting it before it goes too far is what this thinking leads to. The "carrot" analogy above by raytsengwas brilliant. Every few thousand is optimal, and varies by tire type and vehicle. No set rule.
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My alignments are close enough to watch tire wear, and check how alignment is working. I don't want to even it out unless it's really bad.
I've had 2 front wheel drive cars in which I'd drive to 5/32nds on front rotate that to back and use the newish back tire at 8/32's until both worn out.
I've had 2 front wheel drive cars in which I'd drive to 5/32nds on front rotate that to back and use the newish back tire at 8/32's until both worn out.
I rotate once, halfway through when the tread gets to 50%. One and done. Thats all. Still get 50,000 -70,000 miles out of every set.
There are 2 reasons to rotate tires:
1) So they wear out at the same time. Each corner of a vehicle wears tires at different rates, but mostly the difference is front to rear - especially on FWD cars.
2) To prevent the wear pattern from becoming too excessive. Each corner of a vehicle has its own wear pattern, but - again - mostly the difference is front to rear - especially on FWD cars. If a tire stays too long in a given position, it may develop an irregular wear pattern - noise and/or vibrations. Regular and frequent rotation prevents this from happening.
So I don't think a 1/4 rotation works.
1) So they wear out at the same time. Each corner of a vehicle wears tires at different rates, but mostly the difference is front to rear - especially on FWD cars.
2) To prevent the wear pattern from becoming too excessive. Each corner of a vehicle has its own wear pattern, but - again - mostly the difference is front to rear - especially on FWD cars. If a tire stays too long in a given position, it may develop an irregular wear pattern - noise and/or vibrations. Regular and frequent rotation prevents this from happening.
So I don't think a 1/4 rotation works.
I think the OP is on to something here (vehicle permitting, of course) using science, knowledge, understanding and calculation.
As the wear rate can be known by measurement, averaged among the treads for each corner. Then a calculated lifespan can be generated.
In my case, the Right Rear tire wears fastest on my F150. The Left Front, the slowest. By switching those 2 around at the proper time, say, every 1/4 of their lifespan, the end result would be 4 tires worn evenly at the end.
As the wear rate can be known by measurement, averaged among the treads for each corner. Then a calculated lifespan can be generated.
In my case, the Right Rear tire wears fastest on my F150. The Left Front, the slowest. By switching those 2 around at the proper time, say, every 1/4 of their lifespan, the end result would be 4 tires worn evenly at the end.
I have had more problems created by rotating than prevented by it.
My old Cherokee was sensitive to tire balance and rotating tended to set off wheel wobble.
That said, I get 80k-110k out of a set of Michelin LTX by rotating front to rear at 10-20k and then again in the 70k-80k ballpark. If I see uneven wear, I will rotate them to even it out, but minimize doing it on a schedule.
My old minivans used to eat front tires so I did it to even out visible wear. Keeping the front tires slightly over-inflated helped some with that also.
My old Cherokee was sensitive to tire balance and rotating tended to set off wheel wobble.
That said, I get 80k-110k out of a set of Michelin LTX by rotating front to rear at 10-20k and then again in the 70k-80k ballpark. If I see uneven wear, I will rotate them to even it out, but minimize doing it on a schedule.
My old minivans used to eat front tires so I did it to even out visible wear. Keeping the front tires slightly over-inflated helped some with that also.
I try to religiously rotate every 5k. Easy to remember. All my vehicles now have two sets of wheels (winter/summer or at least spares) so it's pretty quick. Tire wear is hard to undo if anything starts up.
I guess where I live it must be twisty as I don't get more than 40k from a set. In which case 5k might be too far.
I guess where I live it must be twisty as I don't get more than 40k from a set. In which case 5k might be too far.
I rotate when I do my seasonal winter tire change in/out.
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