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Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs #4451673
07/06/17 06:47 PM
07/06/17 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
S. CT, USA
Scargo Offline OP
Scargo  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
S. CT, USA
Subaru 2.5L (EJ25) Dual AVCS, 4-cyl Turbo, race motor, track use, 7,500 RPM, 430 WHP, BW EFR turbo.
OIL TYPE & GRADE: Royal Purple XPR 5W/30
HR on Oil: 3 Hours
Total HR on engine: 6 hours
I am using 32 ounces of TORCO per 5 gallons of premium 93 octane, the maximum amount of Torco octane booster additive, in my
fuel.
The other thing I did, which may be inappropriate, is I drained the oil cold and collected my sample after a quart or so ran out. Could that cause volatiles (fuel) to be missed?
I have no hint of impending doom. No excessive blowby for a race engine.
Engine is conservatively tuned so A/F ratios are fairly fat.
Oil pressure is good. 60-80 PSI. Nine quart capacity. I use K&N HP 3001 filters. Race engine bearing clearances of 1.5 on mains. ACL racing bearings.
Any thoughts on the high lead number? Should I continue to use the oil (for more hours)?

ALUMINUM 6
CHROMIUM 3
IRON 24
COPPER 4
LEAD 125
TIN 1
MOLYBDENUM 104
NICKEL 0
SILVER 42
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 2
BORON 41
SILICON 10
SODIUM 7
CALCIUM 2496
MAGNESIUM 11
PHOSPHORUS 980
ZINC 1527
BARIUM 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 56.2
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 9.13
Flashpoint in F 360
Fuel % TR
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % .1


Try this jalapeno son... It ain't hot!
17 BMW 440iX
17 Ford 150 XLT Sport
07 STi DD. 375 AWD HP
08 STi track car. 467 AWD HP (6:1 P/WR)
818R FFR racer
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4451682
07/06/17 06:59 PM
07/06/17 06:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
bigjl Offline
bigjl  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
Tuned WRX's and STis tend to be run on thicker oil in the UK.

5w40 is now pretty much the usual oil, usually Shell Helix Full Synth.

Some specialists used to use even thicker oil, 5w50 if memory serves.


16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4451687
07/06/17 07:07 PM
07/06/17 07:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
dgunay Offline
dgunay  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
xw30 is too thin for the EJ25 engine, especially if it is driven hard. That would be the reason for high lead number.

You should use at least 40 weight in that car, even some Subie drivers in the middle east use 10w60.

I'd change it with Rotella T6 5w40 and take sample again, and see if lead gets lower.

By the way, what do you mean by "fat" A/F ratio? Do you mean is it rich or lean? If it is lean, detonation might be the reason for high lead number.


2009 Acura CSX - PUP 0w20 / Fram XG7317 / Maxlife ATF
2018 Kawasaki Z650 - Motul 4T 5100 10w40 / OEM Oil Filter
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4451709
07/06/17 07:30 PM
07/06/17 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,565
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,565
Toronto
+1
Ditch the fuel-economy grade


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4451867
07/06/17 10:02 PM
07/06/17 10:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 220
NY
DdDd Offline
DdDd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 220
NY
Lotsa lead!!!

Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4451877
07/06/17 10:14 PM
07/06/17 10:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,141
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,141
NE,Ohio
What are your oil temps? Pretty sure you need something thicker in there. 5w40 or 5w50 come to mind.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4452163
07/07/17 08:48 AM
07/07/17 08:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,577
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,577
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Subaru in Europe recommends this when racing even stock engines.


https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Synthetic...trol+edge+10w60


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4452287
07/07/17 11:18 AM
07/07/17 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
Maybe XPR uses lead as an additive!? No idea. That's a lot though. I would certainly run something thicker. Somewhere in the 14-17 cSt range for KV100.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4452297
07/07/17 11:36 AM
07/07/17 11:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,516
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,516
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Maybe XPR uses lead as an additive!? No idea. That's a lot though. I would certainly run something thicker. Somewhere in the 14-17 cSt range for KV100.


thumbsup

They are using TETRAETHYL LEAD, (C2H5)4Pb as the antiknock compound and of course to raise the octane level.


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4453475
07/08/17 01:17 PM
07/08/17 01:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 27
Canada
subzerospeed Offline
subzerospeed  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 27
Canada
ya lotsa lead. i would run ATLEAST a 40 weight in your ej, ESPECIALLY considering its use.


15' fiST
Pennzoil Platinum 5w30
Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 3+
Escort IX

Only braking for Ka
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: MolaKule] #4455975
07/11/17 07:23 AM
07/11/17 07:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
S. CT, USA
Scargo Offline OP
Scargo  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
S. CT, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Maybe XPR uses lead as an additive!? No idea. That's a lot though. I would certainly run something thicker. Somewhere in the 14-17 cSt range for KV100.

thumbsup
They are using TETRAETHYL LEAD, (C2H5)4Pb as the antiknock compound and of course to raise the octane level.

Is there any way of quantifying how much could get into the oil? How it could affect the numbers? Blackstone wondered if it was the Torco. A quart per five gallons...
Also, I've run Royal Purple XPR before without the high lead numbers, but also with only 12 fluid ounces of Torco.
When I say "fat" I do mean rich. At boost I am at 11:1.

Originally Posted By: Rand
What are your oil temps? Pretty sure you need something thicker in there. 5w40 or 5w50 come to mind.
My oil temps are great. Often below 200 and never over 210. My engine has never run hot. I also have a big racing radiator.

I will add that I thought I could run a lower viscosity oil because of my unique oil system. I don't know how much you can compare it to stock and Subaru recommendations. I've done the obligatory radiusing, enlarging and matching of galleys that many race engine builders do. I am running a 12mm ported pump with deep back. This gives me lots of volume. I run an external, adjustable oil pressure relief valve. I started out with over 150 PSI! I dialed it down to 85 PSI. It seldom sees below 70 PSI on the track. It has dropped some and I have raised it back and I went with 10-40 RP when I took the tested oil out. Of course, I am concerned that I may have some bearing wear issues. The engine was dyno'd at 470 WHP and 391 FPT, but I have yet to race it at that max power level.


Try this jalapeno son... It ain't hot!
17 BMW 440iX
17 Ford 150 XLT Sport
07 STi DD. 375 AWD HP
08 STi track car. 467 AWD HP (6:1 P/WR)
818R FFR racer
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4456075
07/11/17 09:25 AM
07/11/17 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
You're reasoning seems sound for running a thinner weight, especially given your low oil temps. Only another UOA will be able to tell you if you have a bearing issue. Maybe do a quick flush dino oil and then re-fill with your RP of choice (although I'd recommend Redline 30 or 40 weight racing), turn the boost down a bit, run without the octane booster, and re-analyze. If the lead is still high, you may have a bearing issue.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4458114
07/13/17 09:44 AM
07/13/17 09:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
S. CT, USA
Scargo Offline OP
Scargo  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
S. CT, USA
I appreciate the comments. However, like i said, I have just put in 10-40 and will try that on my next track days which will give me three plus hours on the engine. I'll then have it analyzed and it will have the same run time on it as the first sample.
It's not so easy for me to change my boost settings and mess with other factors. The engine was dyno'd for three performance levels; all using the same Torco enhanced fuel or 105 octane (so I could use 105-110 racing fuel if I needed to). I cannot modify the maps. Yes, the 385 WHP setting could run on pump gas but it's not as much fun as 430... (and it was tuned on 105 octane). I could possibly reduce the Torco, but not eliminate it, for 430 if I keep a close eye on my EGT readings. I guess I don't see much point in doing anything different until I see how the more viscous oil does.
I am skeptical as to making an oil brand change when Royal Purple has served me well with two previous Subaru race engines. No bearing failures and no extreme wear. One bottom-end could have easily kept going had I not burned a valve from lash being too tight. I generally ran 10-40 in it when ambient temps warmed up.
I may well have bearing wear issues but I don't suspect the oil is at fault. Another Subaru racing buddy put an ungodly number of track hours on one engine using RP and he didn't have the enhancements I have had.
One thing I have learned, as I have built subsequent Subaru race engines, is that the cases and journals can move around and must be always be measured and machined in an "as run" assembled condition, meaning torque plates to simulate heads being in place, etc. Otherwise, you just luck out if it lasts in a high power, high RPM environment. I didn't do everything on this engine to the "Nth degree" when I set up the bearings. I hope it doesn't come back and bite me in the [censored].


Try this jalapeno son... It ain't hot!
17 BMW 440iX
17 Ford 150 XLT Sport
07 STi DD. 375 AWD HP
08 STi track car. 467 AWD HP (6:1 P/WR)
818R FFR racer
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4459207
07/14/17 10:55 AM
07/14/17 10:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Scargo
]My oil temps are great. Often below 200 and never over 210. My engine has never run hot. I also have a big racing radiator.


Hmm, maybe you are overcooling your oil? Tape off the oil cooler? Are you running a thermostat?


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: Subaru STi race engine, RP XPR 5W/30, 3hrs [Re: Scargo] #4460395
07/15/17 06:14 PM
07/15/17 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,690
Idaho
SubLGT Offline
SubLGT  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,690
Idaho
If bearings were going bad, would also expect to see high numbers for tin. Silver is high, from turbo bearing perhaps.

Consider contacting this company: http://www.dysonanalysis.com/about-us

Last edited by SubLGT; 07/15/17 06:20 PM.
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