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Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? #4451226
07/06/17 11:56 AM
07/06/17 11:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
CharlieBauer Offline OP
CharlieBauer  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,226
CA
I recently did a brake fluid flush and feel the pedal could be a little firmer.

I had previously heard about the Phoenix Systems reverse brake bleeder and was wondering if I could use my brake bleeding adapter cap together with my Mityvac to achieve something similar and pull any remaining air out of the system.

Here is a link where somebody used the reverse brake bleeder to get air out that apparently wasn't bleeding out after multiple regular brake bleeding attempts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-9...lts-beware.html

Thoughts? Seeing I've done the brake fluid change, can I achieve something simiilar just by pulling a vacuum?


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4451297
07/06/17 01:11 PM
07/06/17 01:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,920
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,920
Illinois
I have a small hand held vacuum brake bleeder. You have to first back the bleeders out and put some liquid sealant on the threads or they suck air in past the threads. I've found speed bleeders to do the same.

Also I usually start the engine so I have vacuum assist on the brakes when doing the rear as they are usually somehow restricted compared to the front.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4451312
07/06/17 01:23 PM
07/06/17 01:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,480
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,480
Ontario, Canada
My method is to put the vacuum bleeder on the caliper, then slowly pump the brakes 10 times. I then remove the vacuum bleeder and let it gravity bleed for a couple seconds to let out any air that made it past the threads of the bleeder. Always results in a nice firm brake pedal.


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
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Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4451484
07/06/17 04:08 PM
07/06/17 04:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,518
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,518
The Motor City
Theoretically, vacuum bleeding is a superior way to draw air out of the lines. Any air grows in volume and is more easily swept away by the process.

In practice, air is drawn past the bleeder screw threads and mucks up the procedure.

Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4451497
07/06/17 04:18 PM
07/06/17 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer

I had previously heard about the Phoenix Systems reverse brake bleeder and was wondering if I could use my brake bleeding adapter cap together with my Mityvac to achieve something similar


If you disassemble the master cylinder, you would see that too much vacuum will pull air past the lip on the piston seal - so don't go crazy on it.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: Linctex] #4451523
07/06/17 04:50 PM
07/06/17 04:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,522
Marshfield , MA
andyd Online content
andyd  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,522
Marshfield , MA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer

I had previously heard about the Phoenix Systems reverse brake bleeder and was wondering if I could use my brake bleeding adapter cap together with my Mityvac to achieve something similar


If you disassemble the master cylinder, you would see that too much vacuum will pull air past the lip on the piston seal - so don't go crazy on it.
I'm not surprised by this observation. That is why I push the pedal by hand with an airlock at the bleeder. I seal the bleeder threads with some grease. Some time in the process I do a gravity bleed as well. My pedal feels great and I'm smug as all get out because I haven't spent a cent on a tool I don't need. grin2


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4452140
07/07/17 09:27 AM
07/07/17 09:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline
EdwardC  Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
I've wondered about pulling a vacuum in the fluid reservoir to pull out bubbles, but I'd be afraid to suck extra air in from the bleeders.

I don't know how well it would work on a car, but I've seen motocyclists use a large syringe to inject the brake fluid from the bleeder up to the reservoir, appears to be the same idea as the Phoenix system.

I might have to try something like this next time I do a brake flush, I feel my Element's brakes aren't quite as firm as I think they should be.

Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: EdwardC] #4452158
07/07/17 09:44 AM
07/07/17 09:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,606
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,606
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: EdwardC


I don't know how well it would work on a car, but I've seen motocyclists use a large syringe to inject the brake fluid from the bleeder up to the reservoir, appears to be the same idea as the Phoenix system.



Works very well on my car, though I've been told somewhere on here that it's wicked and wrong and flying in the face of established good practice.

I think the concerns are that you might squirt some dirt into the master cylinder, or that you might evert seals in the master cylinder. I remove a bit of fluid from the caliper/brake cylinder first to minimise the first issue.

Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4453470
07/08/17 02:14 PM
07/08/17 02:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,527
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,527
NH
I figure, I kinda need the vacuum pump, so as to empty the MC when changing brake fluid. I could steal the turkey baster but the wife gets mad when I return it, no matter how well I clean it. Thus I just live with air bubbles when pulling fluid through the bleeders. In practice it doesn't seem to do anything bad.

I've replaced a few calipers and used the pump, and it seems to work fine for getting the system working. I know gravity would work too but the pump is faster.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 190k, his
Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: mightymousetech] #4453534
07/08/17 03:15 PM
07/08/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 261
Ontario Canada
Canadastang Offline
Canadastang  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 261
Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
My method is to put the vacuum bleeder on the caliper, then slowly pump the brakes 10 times. I then remove the vacuum bleeder and let it gravity bleed for a couple seconds to let out any air that made it past the threads of the bleeder. Always results in a nice firm brake pedal.


+1 I always vacuum and then finish off with gravity. Makes for a very nice firm pedal every single time.

Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: CharlieBauer] #4453567
07/08/17 04:07 PM
07/08/17 04:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,811
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,811
USA
speed bleeders are awesome smile

Re: Pull a vacuum on brake fluid? [Re: supton] #4453727
07/08/17 07:33 PM
07/08/17 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,606
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,606
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: supton
I figure, I kinda need the vacuum pump, so as to empty the MC when changing brake fluid.


Syringe does that too.


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