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#4450392 - 07/05/17 12:27 PM Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system
L_Sludger Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 3947
Loc: Ohio
I remember a long time ago on a forum, not sure if it was here or Supraforums, a member who played with water injection in his minivan. He was getting good results from it but people were very skeptical of his claims.
Bosch has developed a factory OEM water injection system for gasoline automobile engines.
http://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/...ater-injection/
Among other things, they claim improved fuel efficiency and lower emissions.

I remember back when we were talking about DIY water injection systems the prevailing thought was "If this idea was worth a rat's hootus, it would have been used by OEMs by now." Well sir, the OEMs were probably developing the systems as we spoke.

Anyway, the Bosch system is fairly simple. Here's what it boils down to: A 1.5 gallon tank of demineralized water which lasts 1500 miles. This is probably easier to obtain than the Oldsmobile Turbo-Rocket fluid of their ill-fated methanol-injected turbocharged Jetfire of years past! ( Olds Jetfire article, interesting reading )
The system injects water whenever its deemed necessary. Bosch claims:
5% more horsepower
up to 13% better fuel consumption (this is huge)
4% less CO2 emissions (Of no interest to anyone other than the carbon credit cartels)

While the horsepower increase is meager, the fuel consumption reduction is compelling. And water injection will keep the engine clean and free of deposits in the combustion chamber, so it performs consistently throughout its life cycle. That is very compelling to me.

Here's a short video. I don't care for the voice narration.


Thoughts?
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#4450396 - 07/05/17 12:31 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
KingCake Offline


Registered: 11/19/15
Posts: 1462
Water injection is really old tech. Makes biggest difference in forced induction setups where cooling the air charge = big gains. WWII planes with superchargers, like the P38 lightning, had water injection systems.

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#4450472 - 07/05/17 02:12 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1345
Loc: toronto
For sure, water injection is old school but now the OEMs are realy trying to economically commercialize it to their advantage. Using water injection will bring down combustion/chamber temps which allows more in-cylinder pressure and reduced NOx formation- benefiting both FE and emissions. IMO, the genial systems will use condensed water obtained from the products of combustion as the feed.

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#4450501 - 07/05/17 02:52 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
ammolab Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Ruidoso, NM USA
Just water?. And when the whole system freezes solid over a winter night?....
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#4450532 - 07/05/17 03:20 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: ammolab]
SirTanon Offline


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 2158
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona - USA
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Just water?. And when the whole system freezes solid over a winter night?....


As long as the system maintains a sufficient expansion area, then the freeze should not cause any damage, and once the engine warms up, after a couple minutes of operation, the water will melt pretty quickly. In the interim, the engine will just run without water injection and nobody will no any different.

Or, some smart engineer will build in some kind of electrically-managed heating system that will maintain the water temp slightly above freezing when it detects below-freezing ambient temps.
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#4450533 - 07/05/17 03:20 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger

The system injects water whenever its deemed necessary. Bosch claims:
5% more horsepower
up to 13% better fuel consumption (this is huge)


ONLY if... and I mean ONLY if - your compression is high enough to take advantage of it.

I've done a lot of work with this. Late 70's engines with 7.5:1 compression see no benefits from water injection AT ALL.

However, a high compression engine that pings like crazy on 91-93 octane can run 87 octane with a good water injection system.

What seems like a million years ago already, I rebuilt a 1969 351W (back to stock) except with a mild Crane cam.

The machine shop milled the heads .010" -.015" or so flat (now with REALLY small chambers!) and cleaned up the deck surface, about .010" - - - along with flat-tops, I was over 10:1 and didn't really know it.

I soon found out that even with 92 octane pump gas, I had to retard the timing a LOT - I was only getting about 10-11 mpg. That sucked.

There used to be a water injection kit that came with a vacuum-modulated valve (more vacuum, less flow - vacuum drops, water flow increases) and I paid about $30 or $40 for it. It WORKED!!

After I got it dialed in (lots of playing required to make these work right) I could finally get my timing back up to where it was needed for good power and economy. I ended up getting 15-16 mpg once it was all dialed in right. I quart of water only lasted about 100-150 miles, though. It was tough on the hood hinges.
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#4450556 - 07/05/17 03:38 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: Austin, Texas
Compression is way up in modern times as compared to the mid/late 70s due to modern ignition and fuel delivery systems. My Sonata has 11.3:1 compression and runs on 87 octane, for example.

I guess they can take the compression further with water injection...


Edited by Brons2 (07/05/17 03:39 PM)
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#4450568 - 07/05/17 04:00 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: Brons2]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1345
Loc: toronto
True, you're not going to find any engine sold today with a 7.5:1 compression ratio, unless maybe small OPE type small engines.

Brons2, yes most new engines use high static compression ratios but they wouldn't be able to without the use of Direct Injection (and it's cooling effect) and/or wide-range variable intake cam timing (which modifies cylinder charge pressure/dynamic compression ratio using severely retarded cam timing).

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#4450627 - 07/05/17 05:35 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: ammolab]
jhellwig Offline


Registered: 07/01/13
Posts: 1541
Loc: Ottumwa, Iowa
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Just water?. And when the whole system freezes solid over a winter night?....


I think some of the aftermarket systems use windshield washer fluid for that reason.
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#4450758 - 07/05/17 08:02 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1658
Loc: Crawfordville FL
I could see that injection of water if metered just perfectly, could help with fuel economy. The turbos that run on 87 tend to run very rich under high boost to control knock. If you add a little water you could lean out the mix and potentially run even higher boost
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#4450774 - 07/05/17 08:17 PM Re: Bosch WaterBoost - water injection system [Re: L_Sludger]
L_Sludger Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 3947
Loc: Ohio
SilverFusion2010, Excellent point about the 87 octane knock mitigation. I was going to make that point but hesitated.

Manufacturers are going to smaller and ever more stressed motors with turbos to squeeze a fraction of a percent better MPG to satisfy the CARB/CAFE beast. Water injection could be a crucial part of the next step of that trend.
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