Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine.

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I saw that on the news site. I suspect they will concentrate on Hybrids. But last time I looked, hybwids used infernal combustion engines.

The great push for electric cars is interesting. However, until the printed graphene batteries flood the market we are going to have limited range, expensive batteries, long recharge times and limited capabilities.

Those that predict the end are a bit premature I think.

I sometimes drive from South Florida to Northern Tennessee. I bring along my ATV and dirt bike. It's an 800 mile drive, with one fuel stop. Let's see an electric anything do this.
 
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
I saw that on the news site. I suspect they will concentrate on Hybrids. But last time I looked, hybwids used infernal combustion engines.
You suspect that because they directly said "hybrids": "In the face of competition from upstarts like Tesla Inc., which begins production this week of its new mass-market Model 3 electric battery-powered family car, the Chinese-owned automotive group on Wednesday said all new Volvo models from 2019 would be either fully electric or a hybrid."

Yes the headline is misleading since hybrids (non-plugin ones at least) get all their energy from fuel.

I think they can do this because they say "new" models, and, really, using electric motors to fill in the low-rpm torque curve where ICE engines fail to deliver, is a better driving experience. If you've ever driven a hybrid or pure-electric car, you might have noticed how peppy it is off the line. Electric motors make a great "turbo" boost in a manner of speaking.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies


...really, using electric motors to fill in the low-rpm torque curve where ICE engines fail to deliver, is a better driving experience. If you've ever driven a hybrid or pure-electric car, you might have noticed how peppy it is off the line. Electric motors make a great "turbo" boost in a manner of speaking.



I agree. A well designed hybrid does accelerate with authority, while returning good MPG. Better MPG than my beloved turbo cars.... The Accord Hybrid 0-60 is 6.9 seconds. Not bad for a family car that gets 42 real world MPG.
 
So Honda is getting into the turbo field and Volvo is getting out.

I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.
 
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.

Pure electrics are mostly just for a 2nd car. Many people want one car that will do long trips while still taking them back and forth to work, which is why you're exactly right about hybrids being the best ONE solution.

If you can afford and have room for a 2nd car, there is just nothing like a pure-electric though! Gets you around running errands, on regular commutes, and keeps your ICE car out of short-tripping, which as bitogers know, is bad on your oil.

You can bet that 90% of the Tesla owners I've seen also have a gasoline engined vehicle for road trips over 100 miles away. As for Leaf or Focus EV owners, an ICE car is even more necessary, as any trip over 40 miles away from home is problematic.
 
Volvo will be interesting to watch. They are owned by China's Geely. Easier to buy a brand than introduce a new one.
Newer models are being built in China and Indonesia; some are still manufactured in Europe (The VIN tells you which is which.)
An S60 base model that retails for $40,000 may cost $35,000 to build from its European factories in Belgium/Sweden; a $5,000 profit.
An S60 Inscription, top of the line, may sell for $45,000 but is built in China or Indonesia and cost $30,000 to build; a $15,000 profit.
The S90 is made exclusively in China I believe; a $55,000 car.
Will be interesting to see where the electric/hybrids are built. I don't see how owners of a T5 (250 hp) or a T6 (300 hp) will be happy with an electric/hybrid powerplant but they must know more than me.
 
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
So Honda is getting into the turbo field and Volvo is getting out.

I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.


So much misinformation. Don't buy into the FUD. There is a ton of recharging infrastructure out there. Better so if you have a Tesla with their supercharging network, but still, there's a ton out there.

My buddy took his Model S from Texas to California and back last summer, for example.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.

Pure electrics are mostly just for a 2nd car. Many people want one car that will do long trips while still taking them back and forth to work, which is why you're exactly right about hybrids being the best ONE solution.

If you can afford and have room for a 2nd car, there is just nothing like a pure-electric though! Gets you around running errands, on regular commutes, and keeps your ICE car out of short-tripping, which as bitogers know, is bad on your oil.

You can bet that 90% of the Tesla owners I've seen also have a gasoline engined vehicle for road trips over 100 miles away. As for Leaf or Focus EV owners, an ICE car is even more necessary, as any trip over 40 miles away from home is problematic.


My buddy with the Model S does not have a backup ICE vehicle...and like I said in my last post, he took it on a LONG road trip to California and back, including going up through Big Sur, which is very sparsely populated!

Sure there are rational downsides to electric cars, like, the acqusition cost is pretty high compared to the least expensive ICE cars. Hyundai is selling new Sonatas for less than $20K, and new Elantras for less than $15K (after rebates) for example. But a lot of the objections people have, especially the things I read on BITOG, are not factual. Stuff like "you can bet that 90% of Tesla xyz yada yada are just one poster's made up opinions.

Just the facts, please.
 
Hopefully the free market will pick the winning strategy and if the government is going to help they will figure out how to effectively help without treating our tax money like Monopoly money.

I'm all for an electric car as a second vehicle. For my wife and I there is plenty of use for a short run vehicle. Why don't I have one now you ask. My current two commuter vehicles have a lot of life left to go and the calculations are not yet at the point of a purchase. But its coming.

I will make the purchase and the switch when the calculations make sense and not because I think I'm saving the world. The only thing I'll have to lose is the joy and the feeling of a job well done when I change the engine oil (lol). BITOG will have to spawn a sister site titled something like "Helen is the electric car mistress".
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Sure there are rational downsides to electric cars, like, the acqusition cost is pretty high compared to the least expensive ICE cars. Hyundai is selling new Sonatas for less than $20K, and new Elantras for less than $15K (after rebates) for example. But a lot of the objections people have, especially the things I read on BITOG, are not factual. Stuff like "you can bet that 90% of Tesla xyz yada yada are just one poster's made up opinions.
Just the facts, please.

Here's a fact. I paid $15k cash net for a 2016 0-miles new electric vehicle with leather, heated seats, a Nav system, and a chassis shared with the Ford Focus (nice hanlding!). Kind of blows your whole theory of "acquisition cost is high" for EVs.
Your buddy with one Tesla, and very poor judgement, should understand that chargers can be unavailable on road trips (broken, taken up, etc.).

The Tesla and Chevy Bolt do have a range that may allow more people to have an electric as their sole vehicle. For trips over 100 miles, they can ride with a friend or rent something, many figure. Trust me, people who buy Teslas are usually rich enough to own an SUV or something right next to their toy Tesla. If not 90%, its a high percentage close to that in my estimate.

And guess what? My opinions are based on many years and observations. Keep insulting your way into the hearts and minds of those around you.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/116150725-tesla-owner-survey-results --- "The average Tesla owner makes $271,000 (down from $290,000 in 2013) and is between the ages of 35-50. 88% of owners are male (smaller sample size)."
Gaurantee you that demographic is going to own more than one car, easily around 90%.


All the people I personally know with a Tesla use it as their sole daily driver. The only other car they have is a track toy.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
All the people I personally know with a Tesla use it as their sole daily driver. The only other car they have is a track toy.

"All" is a bit extreme. Yet, a good track toy also makes a decent road tripper in most cases. Running to Vegas in a Mustang, Corvette, GTI, WRX, Challenger, is not bad. Stick to the surveys over thousands, since you don't know anywhere near "all" Tesla owners.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Sure there are rational downsides to electric cars, like, the acqusition cost is pretty high compared to the least expensive ICE cars. Hyundai is selling new Sonatas for less than $20K, and new Elantras for less than $15K (after rebates) for example. But a lot of the objections people have, especially the things I read on BITOG, are not factual. Stuff like "you can bet that 90% of Tesla xyz yada yada are just one poster's made up opinions.
Just the facts, please.

Here's a fact. I paid $15k cash net for a 2016 0-miles new electric vehicle with leather, heated seats, a Nav system, and a chassis shared with the Ford Focus (nice hanlding!). Kind of blows your whole theory of "acquisition cost is high" for EVs.
Your buddy with one Tesla, and very poor judgement, should understand that chargers can be unavailable on road trips (broken, taken up, etc.).

The Tesla and Chevy Bolt do have a range that may allow more people to have an electric as their sole vehicle. For trips over 100 miles, they can ride with a friend or rent something, many figure. Trust me, people who buy Teslas are usually rich enough to own an SUV or something right next to their toy Tesla. If not 90%, its a high percentage close to that in my estimate.

And guess what? My opinions are based on many years and observations. Keep insulting your way into the hearts and minds of those around you.


Yes, if you have a Focus electric, you probably need at least one ICE vehicle in the household if you want to leave your metro area. Or plan to rent a lot. 76 mile range per Google. More of a "green lifestyle" vehicle if you ask me. Apples and oranges as compared to a Bolt or a Tesla, in my opinion anyway. Your opinion may be different, that's fine, it's a free country.

Regarding broken charging stations, one can call ahead and check on the status of Supercharger stations (877-798-3752) and there are quite a few "pumps" at each station.

My friend most certainly does not have poor judgement. I won't be asking him his income, although I know he bought the Tesla used.

As for the other - I'll just say I'm no spring chicken, and leave it at that.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/116150725-tesla-owner-survey-results --- "The average Tesla owner makes $271,000 (down from $290,000 in 2013) and is between the ages of 35-50. 88% of owners are male (smaller sample size)."
Gaurantee you that demographic is going to own more than one car, easily around 90%.


Interesting data, but it doesn't answer the question of whether they need to have another vehicle because recharging their EV is less convenient than refilling an ICE vehicle with fuel.

Or do want another vehicle for more or less personal reasons (whatever those might be). Basically because they can.

I suppose the "where" might be relevant too. If you drive from Minneapolis to Yellowstone NP, you're going to need an ICE powered vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Volvo is irrelevant, they just want to make some noise so that maybe someone will start paying some attention to them.


I agree.

Not too long ago they claimed they would stop building everything but the 4 cyl engines.
My guess is that the super and turbo charged engines aren't fairing as well as they'd hoped(well, duh!). Now they hope to focus all their attention on electric cars.

Just more hype to increase sales.
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