Asymmetric Tire Patterns

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I know this now, but it took me a while for it to sink in.



Take a look at these tires. Assume they are rolling towards you. The "outside" label is indeed on the outside. But the tread patterns I guess you'd say are 180 degrees different. So the direction of the "cuts" are going in different directions, based on what side of the vehicle the tire is on. I noticed this because the sidewall on these tires have spirals that point in one direction on the drivers side, but if I move the wheel/tire to the passenger side the spirals point in the opposite direction. The tire will be turning in the opposite direction.

In order to have a true asymmetric AND directional tire you would have a have a tire made exclusively for each side of the vehicle.

My Goodyear RS-A's on my truck are asymmetric and they too have the the tread cuts going in opposite directions driver side vs passenger side.

Do I have it right?
 
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I can confirm that tires that are asymmetric and directional end up being right and left.
I have not seen pair recently.

Krzys
 
Sounds right to me. I've never had a set of tires that are asymmetric and directional, but directional tires are the limiting factor for rotations as the tires are stuck on each side of the car. Asymmetric can be rotated anywhere and can keep feathering under control better if that's an issue.
 
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.
 
Asymmetric tires can go on any side, outside is already outside (if properly mounted).

Krzys
 
I don't know the brand/model but, there are true, asymmetrical & directional tires.
IIRC, the first Acura NSX had these tires and each corner had its own tire/size and directional pattern...Very expensive and low wearing(~10K miles).
 
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.


Absolutely, helps keep the tires worn evenly.

Front to the back, cross the rear tires to the front. After 3 rotations, each tire has been on every corner.

That's a big thing I dislike about directional tires, they can not be rotated properly, which causes uneven wear. This is a big reason why tire manufacturers are moving away from directional patterns to asymmetrical.
 
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Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.


Absolutely, helps keep the tires worn evenly.

Front to the back, cross the rear tires to the front. After 3 rotations, each tire has been on every corner.

That's a big thing I dislike about directional tires, they can not be rotated properly, which causes uneven wear. This is a big reason why tire manufacturers are moving away from directional patterns to asymmetrical.


Makes sense to me too. I'll start using the chriss cross method. I did not know if reversing the direction a tire had been rotating would be bad, but if it were we'd have known that by now.

This has been a learnable moment for me. Those stripes on the tires kinda threw me off. Just for giggles, here's what I was seeing.



On the tire above, looking at it from the driver side, it rotates to the left. Notice the way the curves point forward.



Above tire your looking at it from the passenger side. It rotates to the right. Curves are going opposite.

It's all good. Just thought I had to have two different tires originally.
crazy.gif
 
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.



There is a lot of misinformation in this thread...

An asymmetric tire can go to the other side of the car if it is NOT directional.


There is more to the symmetrical/asymmetrical thing than the pattern itself. Asymmetrical tires often have a different sidewall and/or compound construction on the inside versus outside sidewalls. Just because it appears symmetrical doesn't mean it is. Look on the sidewall: if you see "OUTSIDE", it is asymmetrical. If you see "ROTATION-->", it is directional. A tire could be both.


https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=99
 
Originally Posted By: dparm

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread...

An asymmetric tire can go to the other side of the car if it is NOT directional.


There is more to the symmetrical/asymmetrical thing than the pattern itself. Asymmetrical tires often have a different sidewall and/or compound construction on the inside versus outside sidewalls. Just because it appears symmetrical doesn't mean it is. Look on the sidewall: if you see "OUTSIDE", it is asymmetrical. If you see "ROTATION-->", it is directional. A tire could be both.


https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=99


Yes we all know the difference between symmetrical, asymmetrical and directional tire patterns. That was never called into question. The sidewall graphics, (not the OUTSIDE or ROTATION--> markings) just threw me off for a second. And yes, directional asymmetric patterns do exist, although they are rare.
 
If you want an explanation as to why tire manufacturers would produce an asymmetrical tire that looks different (from the rolling prespective), read on.

I've clipped the photo that started this thread:



Notice the inside shoulder ribs - the ones where the two tires touch. Notice that the angles are nearly perpendicular to the direction of travel.

Then notice the outermost shoulder ribs. Those have more of an angle.

Now decide which is more visually appealing.

If you are like most people, the outside (more angled) ribs are the most appealing - and tire stylists know that. So in spite of the fact that it confuses people, they chose to go the more visually attractive route.
 
Why do they put the angled small cuts in the outer tread blocks? Just noise reduction? When I autocross you can see every angled cut on the outside blocks seems to be hurting grip as they wear quickly until the edges get worn round. In a real emergency maneuver most people will have tires with nice sharp corners on everything and grip will be lost as those get ground off...
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Why do they put the angled small cuts in the outer tread blocks? Just noise reduction? When I autocross you can see every angled cut on the outside blocks seems to be hurting grip as they wear quickly until the edges get worn round. In a real emergency maneuver most people will have tires with nice sharp corners on everything and grip will be lost as those get ground off...


I am not familiar with how other tire manufacturers did tread patterns, just the one I worked for. But for the sake of argument, let's assume they all do it the way the company I worked for did it.

Most of the time, Stylists do the tread pattern and it goes through an approval process with engineers and management - typically several iterations. What the group is looking for is not only function, but potential manufacturing issues and curb appeal.

Then a series of experimental tires are made to test out how they perform - and tweaks are made where problems are found.

In this case, I doubt these tires were considered as primarily for autocrossing - and the tread pattern is designed primarily to meet the needs of the street. I am not up to date on the latest rules for autocrossing, but I remember that some classes required DOT tires with at least a 300(???) treadwear rating - with the idea of preventing special runs of tires just for autocrossing.
 
Capriracer,

Are there any negatives (other than tire rotation) if a person were to use asymmetrical tires in a directional setup?
So the left side of the car would show Outside, but the right side would show Inside.

BC.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Capriracer,

Are there any negatives (other than tire rotation) if a person were to use asymmetrical tires in a directional setup?
So the left side of the car would show Outside, but the right side would show Inside.

BC.


First, I am not a fan of asymmetrical tires. I can't think of a scenario where having an asymmetrical tire gives an advantage that can't be achieved by other means.

That said, IF there actually is an advantage to asymmetrical tires, reversing them on one side would cause a detriment on that side.
 
If tires were asymmetrical and directional at same time they'd have to keep up with 2 specs of same size; one for left and right. I've never heard of that on a real tire.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

Are there any negatives (other than tire rotation) if a person were to use asymmetrical tires in a directional setup?
So the left side of the car would show Outside, but the right side would show Inside.

BC


Asymmetrical should never be installed backwards. The inner portion of the tread can be made for better wet grip in acceleration/braking, and the outside of the tire can be optimised for better cornering with larger tread blocks and less siping. Tire engineers can also play with the shoulder bead stiffness making the inside softer and the outside stiffer. Again to optimise comfort/performance/wet/snow grip. Install it backwards and it changes that balance.

I have driven several vehicles where somebody has installed them inside out. It really ruins the handling, and feels really strange. Flipping them back to the way they are supposed to be makes the vehicle feel noticeably better.
 
Originally Posted By: 40w8
If tires were asymmetrical and directional at same time they'd have to keep up with 2 specs of same size; one for left and right. I've never heard of that on a real tire.


Goodyear makes them, one of the versions of the Eagle F1 Supercar. I seem to remember they were OEM on a GT-500 which also had staggered fit tires. So if you replace them there were individual article numbers for Lf, RF, LR, and RR. Most of our customers just replaced them with Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
 
Originally Posted By: 40w8
If tires were asymmetrical and directional at same time they'd have to keep up with 2 specs of same size; one for left and right. I've never heard of that on a real tire.



It's not common, but it does exist. It's typically found on sports car tires and/or model-specific tires for supercars.
 
Originally Posted By: 40w8
If tires were asymmetrical and directional at same time they'd have to keep up with 2 specs of same size; one for left and right. I've never heard of that on a real tire.


This is true but there are some examples of true directional, true asymmetric patterns. The old BFG KD tires used on Roush Stage 3 Mustangs prior to 2007 were this way. There are others, as well.
540741d1306845600-fs-2-bf-goodrich-g-force-285-30-18-s-tires1.jpg



The cons of this type of tire outweigh the limited pros. Just imagine the manufacturing and distribution headaches! Couple this with different front to rear sizing and now you have four unique tires fixed to the corners of your vehicle.
 
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