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#4450127 - 07/05/17 07:53 AM Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine.
Speak2Mountain Offline


Registered: 04/07/17
Posts: 346
Loc: Mississippi

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#4450133 - 07/05/17 08:01 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 7146
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I saw that on the news site. I suspect they will concentrate on Hybrids. But last time I looked, hybwids used infernal combustion engines.

The great push for electric cars is interesting. However, until the printed graphene batteries flood the market we are going to have limited range, expensive batteries, long recharge times and limited capabilities.

Those that predict the end are a bit premature I think.

I sometimes drive from South Florida to Northern Tennessee. I bring along my ATV and dirt bike. It's an 800 mile drive, with one fuel stop. Let's see an electric anything do this.


Edited by Cujet (07/05/17 08:11 AM)
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#4450140 - 07/05/17 08:10 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Cujet]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I saw that on the news site. I suspect they will concentrate on Hybrids. But last time I looked, hybwids used infernal combustion engines.
You suspect that because they directly said "hybrids": "In the face of competition from upstarts like Tesla Inc., which begins production this week of its new mass-market Model 3 electric battery-powered family car, the Chinese-owned automotive group on Wednesday said all new Volvo models from 2019 would be either fully electric or a hybrid."

Yes the headline is misleading since hybrids (non-plugin ones at least) get all their energy from fuel.

I think they can do this because they say "new" models, and, really, using electric motors to fill in the low-rpm torque curve where ICE engines fail to deliver, is a better driving experience. If you've ever driven a hybrid or pure-electric car, you might have noticed how peppy it is off the line. Electric motors make a great "turbo" boost in a manner of speaking.

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#4450145 - 07/05/17 08:13 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: oil_film_movies]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 7146
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies


...really, using electric motors to fill in the low-rpm torque curve where ICE engines fail to deliver, is a better driving experience. If you've ever driven a hybrid or pure-electric car, you might have noticed how peppy it is off the line. Electric motors make a great "turbo" boost in a manner of speaking.



I agree. A well designed hybrid does accelerate with authority, while returning good MPG. Better MPG than my beloved turbo cars.... The Accord Hybrid 0-60 is 6.9 seconds. Not bad for a family car that gets 42 real world MPG.
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#4450199 - 07/05/17 09:14 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
PhillyJoe Offline


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 656
Loc: PA
So Honda is getting into the turbo field and Volvo is getting out.

I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.

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#4450220 - 07/05/17 09:33 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: PhillyJoe]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.

Pure electrics are mostly just for a 2nd car. Many people want one car that will do long trips while still taking them back and forth to work, which is why you're exactly right about hybrids being the best ONE solution.

If you can afford and have room for a 2nd car, there is just nothing like a pure-electric though! Gets you around running errands, on regular commutes, and keeps your ICE car out of short-tripping, which as bitogers know, is bad on your oil.

You can bet that 90% of the Tesla owners I've seen also have a gasoline engined vehicle for road trips over 100 miles away. As for Leaf or Focus EV owners, an ICE car is even more necessary, as any trip over 40 miles away from home is problematic.

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#4450222 - 07/05/17 09:37 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7460
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Volvo is irrelevant, they just want to make some noise so that maybe someone will start paying some attention to them.
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#4450238 - 07/05/17 09:54 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
andyd Offline


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 7139
Loc: Marshfield , MA
isn't Saab making electrics for the Swedish mkt?
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#4450242 - 07/05/17 10:00 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
PhillyJoe Offline


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 656
Loc: PA
Volvo will be interesting to watch. They are owned by China's Geely. Easier to buy a brand than introduce a new one.
Newer models are being built in China and Indonesia; some are still manufactured in Europe (The VIN tells you which is which.)
An S60 base model that retails for $40,000 may cost $35,000 to build from its European factories in Belgium/Sweden; a $5,000 profit.
An S60 Inscription, top of the line, may sell for $45,000 but is built in China or Indonesia and cost $30,000 to build; a $15,000 profit.
The S90 is made exclusively in China I believe; a $55,000 car.
Will be interesting to see where the electric/hybrids are built. I don't see how owners of a T5 (250 hp) or a T6 (300 hp) will be happy with an electric/hybrid powerplant but they must know more than me.

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#4450268 - 07/05/17 10:23 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: andyd]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: andyd
isn't Saab making electrics for the Swedish mkt?


SAAB does not exist anymore.
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#4450280 - 07/05/17 10:31 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: PhillyJoe]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: Austin, Texas
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
So Honda is getting into the turbo field and Volvo is getting out.

I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.


So much misinformation. Don't buy into the FUD. There is a ton of recharging infrastructure out there. Better so if you have a Tesla with their supercharging network, but still, there's a ton out there.

My buddy took his Model S from Texas to California and back last summer, for example.
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#4450288 - 07/05/17 10:36 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: oil_film_movies]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: Austin, Texas
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
I can see buying a hybrid long before buying electric. Electrics are great for commuters but the infrastructure is not there for long distance. You would really have to plan your trip on available recharging stations; which may not be the most direct route.

Pure electrics are mostly just for a 2nd car. Many people want one car that will do long trips while still taking them back and forth to work, which is why you're exactly right about hybrids being the best ONE solution.

If you can afford and have room for a 2nd car, there is just nothing like a pure-electric though! Gets you around running errands, on regular commutes, and keeps your ICE car out of short-tripping, which as bitogers know, is bad on your oil.

You can bet that 90% of the Tesla owners I've seen also have a gasoline engined vehicle for road trips over 100 miles away. As for Leaf or Focus EV owners, an ICE car is even more necessary, as any trip over 40 miles away from home is problematic.


My buddy with the Model S does not have a backup ICE vehicle...and like I said in my last post, he took it on a LONG road trip to California and back, including going up through Big Sur, which is very sparsely populated!

Sure there are rational downsides to electric cars, like, the acqusition cost is pretty high compared to the least expensive ICE cars. Hyundai is selling new Sonatas for less than $20K, and new Elantras for less than $15K (after rebates) for example. But a lot of the objections people have, especially the things I read on BITOG, are not factual. Stuff like "you can bet that 90% of Tesla xyz yada yada are just one poster's made up opinions.

Just the facts, please.
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#4450297 - 07/05/17 10:47 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7475
Loc: S California
Hopefully the free market will pick the winning strategy and if the government is going to help they will figure out how to effectively help without treating our tax money like Monopoly money.

I'm all for an electric car as a second vehicle. For my wife and I there is plenty of use for a short run vehicle. Why don't I have one now you ask. My current two commuter vehicles have a lot of life left to go and the calculations are not yet at the point of a purchase. But its coming.

I will make the purchase and the switch when the calculations make sense and not because I think I'm saving the world. The only thing I'll have to lose is the joy and the feeling of a job well done when I change the engine oil (lol). BITOG will have to spawn a sister site titled something like "Helen is the electric car mistress".

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#4450299 - 07/05/17 10:49 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Brons2]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Sure there are rational downsides to electric cars, like, the acqusition cost is pretty high compared to the least expensive ICE cars. Hyundai is selling new Sonatas for less than $20K, and new Elantras for less than $15K (after rebates) for example. But a lot of the objections people have, especially the things I read on BITOG, are not factual. Stuff like "you can bet that 90% of Tesla xyz yada yada are just one poster's made up opinions.
Just the facts, please.

Here's a fact. I paid $15k cash net for a 2016 0-miles new electric vehicle with leather, heated seats, a Nav system, and a chassis shared with the Ford Focus (nice hanlding!). Kind of blows your whole theory of "acquisition cost is high" for EVs.
Your buddy with one Tesla, and very poor judgement, should understand that chargers can be unavailable on road trips (broken, taken up, etc.).

The Tesla and Chevy Bolt do have a range that may allow more people to have an electric as their sole vehicle. For trips over 100 miles, they can ride with a friend or rent something, many figure. Trust me, people who buy Teslas are usually rich enough to own an SUV or something right next to their toy Tesla. If not 90%, its a high percentage close to that in my estimate.

And guess what? My opinions are based on many years and observations. Keep insulting your way into the hearts and minds of those around you.

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#4450316 - 07/05/17 11:07 AM Re: Volvo Sees End to Int. Combustion Engine. [Re: Speak2Mountain]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/116150725-tesla-owner-survey-results --- "The average Tesla owner makes $271,000 (down from $290,000 in 2013) and is between the ages of 35-50. 88% of owners are male (smaller sample size)."
Gaurantee you that demographic is going to own more than one car, easily around 90%.

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