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Asymmetric Tire Patterns #4450119
07/05/17 07:37 AM
07/05/17 07:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
sohccammer427 Offline OP
sohccammer427  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
I know this now, but it took me a while for it to sink in.



Take a look at these tires. Assume they are rolling towards you. The "outside" label is indeed on the outside. But the tread patterns I guess you'd say are 180 degrees different. So the direction of the "cuts" are going in different directions, based on what side of the vehicle the tire is on. I noticed this because the sidewall on these tires have spirals that point in one direction on the drivers side, but if I move the wheel/tire to the passenger side the spirals point in the opposite direction. The tire will be turning in the opposite direction.

In order to have a true asymmetric AND directional tire you would have a have a tire made exclusively for each side of the vehicle.

My Goodyear RS-A's on my truck are asymmetric and they too have the the tread cuts going in opposite directions driver side vs passenger side.

Do I have it right?


Last edited by sohccammer427; 07/05/17 07:38 AM. Reason: spell

2015 VW Passat TDi 6 Speed Manual
2017 Colorado Duramax
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450123
07/05/17 07:46 AM
07/05/17 07:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 393
MA, USA
krzyss Offline
krzyss  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 393
MA, USA
I can confirm that tires that are asymmetric and directional end up being right and left.
I have not seen pair recently.

Krzys

Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450128
07/05/17 07:54 AM
07/05/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
Sounds right to me. I've never had a set of tires that are asymmetric and directional, but directional tires are the limiting factor for rotations as the tires are stuck on each side of the car. Asymmetric can be rotated anywhere and can keep feathering under control better if that's an issue.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 210km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 10km 0W20 "bulk subaru" whatever that is
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450215
07/05/17 09:29 AM
07/05/17 09:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
sohccammer427 Offline OP
sohccammer427  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.


2015 VW Passat TDi 6 Speed Manual
2017 Colorado Duramax
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450254
07/05/17 10:09 AM
07/05/17 10:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 393
MA, USA
krzyss Offline
krzyss  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 393
MA, USA
Asymmetric tires can go on any side, outside is already outside (if properly mounted).

Krzys

Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450257
07/05/17 10:12 AM
07/05/17 10:12 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,280
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Online content
Char Baby  Online Content
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,280
ROCHESTER, NY
I don't know the brand/model but, there are true, asymmetrical & directional tires.
IIRC, the first Acura NSX had these tires and each corner had its own tire/size and directional pattern...Very expensive and low wearing(~10K miles).


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450263
07/05/17 10:20 AM
07/05/17 10:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,480
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,480
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.


Absolutely, helps keep the tires worn evenly.

Front to the back, cross the rear tires to the front. After 3 rotations, each tire has been on every corner.

That's a big thing I dislike about directional tires, they can not be rotated properly, which causes uneven wear. This is a big reason why tire manufacturers are moving away from directional patterns to asymmetrical.

Last edited by mightymousetech; 07/05/17 10:21 AM.

Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: mightymousetech] #4450296
07/05/17 10:46 AM
07/05/17 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
sohccammer427 Offline OP
sohccammer427  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.


Absolutely, helps keep the tires worn evenly.

Front to the back, cross the rear tires to the front. After 3 rotations, each tire has been on every corner.

That's a big thing I dislike about directional tires, they can not be rotated properly, which causes uneven wear. This is a big reason why tire manufacturers are moving away from directional patterns to asymmetrical.


Makes sense to me too. I'll start using the chriss cross method. I did not know if reversing the direction a tire had been rotating would be bad, but if it were we'd have known that by now.

This has been a learnable moment for me. Those stripes on the tires kinda threw me off. Just for giggles, here's what I was seeing.



On the tire above, looking at it from the driver side, it rotates to the left. Notice the way the curves point forward.



Above tire your looking at it from the passenger side. It rotates to the right. Curves are going opposite.

It's all good. Just thought I had to have two different tires originally. crazy


2015 VW Passat TDi 6 Speed Manual
2017 Colorado Duramax
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4450491
07/05/17 02:43 PM
07/05/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,534
Chicago, IL
dparm Offline
dparm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,534
Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
So this begs the question... Should asymmetric tires be rotated from side to side? I've been in the practice of just always just going front to back keeping tires on the same side.



There is a lot of misinformation in this thread...

An asymmetric tire can go to the other side of the car if it is NOT directional.


There is more to the symmetrical/asymmetrical thing than the pattern itself. Asymmetrical tires often have a different sidewall and/or compound construction on the inside versus outside sidewalls. Just because it appears symmetrical doesn't mean it is. Look on the sidewall: if you see "OUTSIDE", it is asymmetrical. If you see "ROTATION-->", it is directional. A tire could be both.


https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=99


2017 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: dparm] #4450538
07/05/17 03:23 PM
07/05/17 03:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
sohccammer427 Offline OP
sohccammer427  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: dparm

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread...

An asymmetric tire can go to the other side of the car if it is NOT directional.


There is more to the symmetrical/asymmetrical thing than the pattern itself. Asymmetrical tires often have a different sidewall and/or compound construction on the inside versus outside sidewalls. Just because it appears symmetrical doesn't mean it is. Look on the sidewall: if you see "OUTSIDE", it is asymmetrical. If you see "ROTATION-->", it is directional. A tire could be both.


https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=99


Yes we all know the difference between symmetrical, asymmetrical and directional tire patterns. That was never called into question. The sidewall graphics, (not the OUTSIDE or ROTATION--> markings) just threw me off for a second. And yes, directional asymmetric patterns do exist, although they are rare.


2015 VW Passat TDi 6 Speed Manual
2017 Colorado Duramax
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4451015
07/06/17 07:20 AM
07/06/17 07:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline
CapriRacer  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
If you want an explanation as to why tire manufacturers would produce an asymmetrical tire that looks different (from the rolling prespective), read on.

I've clipped the photo that started this thread:



Notice the inside shoulder ribs - the ones where the two tires touch. Notice that the angles are nearly perpendicular to the direction of travel.

Then notice the outermost shoulder ribs. Those have more of an angle.

Now decide which is more visually appealing.

If you are like most people, the outside (more angled) ribs are the most appealing - and tire stylists know that. So in spite of the fact that it confuses people, they chose to go the more visually attractive route.


CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: CapriRacer] #4451301
07/06/17 01:15 PM
07/06/17 01:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
Why do they put the angled small cuts in the outer tread blocks? Just noise reduction? When I autocross you can see every angled cut on the outside blocks seems to be hurting grip as they wear quickly until the edges get worn round. In a real emergency maneuver most people will have tires with nice sharp corners on everything and grip will be lost as those get ground off...


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 210km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 10km 0W20 "bulk subaru" whatever that is
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: IndyIan] #4451658
07/06/17 07:28 PM
07/06/17 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline
CapriRacer  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Why do they put the angled small cuts in the outer tread blocks? Just noise reduction? When I autocross you can see every angled cut on the outside blocks seems to be hurting grip as they wear quickly until the edges get worn round. In a real emergency maneuver most people will have tires with nice sharp corners on everything and grip will be lost as those get ground off...


I am not familiar with how other tire manufacturers did tread patterns, just the one I worked for. But for the sake of argument, let's assume they all do it the way the company I worked for did it.

Most of the time, Stylists do the tread pattern and it goes through an approval process with engineers and management - typically several iterations. What the group is looking for is not only function, but potential manufacturing issues and curb appeal.

Then a series of experimental tires are made to test out how they perform - and tweaks are made where problems are found.

In this case, I doubt these tires were considered as primarily for autocrossing - and the tread pattern is designed primarily to meet the needs of the street. I am not up to date on the latest rules for autocrossing, but I remember that some classes required DOT tires with at least a 300(???) treadwear rating - with the idea of preventing special runs of tires just for autocrossing.


CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: sohccammer427] #4452339
07/07/17 01:14 PM
07/07/17 01:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,473
Dacono, CO
Bladecutter Offline
Bladecutter  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,473
Dacono, CO
Capriracer,

Are there any negatives (other than tire rotation) if a person were to use asymmetrical tires in a directional setup?
So the left side of the car would show Outside, but the right side would show Inside.

BC.


2014 Mazda CX-5 Touring (Soul Red)
2015 Porsche Cayman
2007 Ducati 848
1988 Honda Hawk GT
Re: Asymmetric Tire Patterns [Re: Bladecutter] #4453084
07/08/17 07:22 AM
07/08/17 07:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline
CapriRacer  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Capriracer,

Are there any negatives (other than tire rotation) if a person were to use asymmetrical tires in a directional setup?
So the left side of the car would show Outside, but the right side would show Inside.

BC.


First, I am not a fan of asymmetrical tires. I can't think of a scenario where having an asymmetrical tire gives an advantage that can't be achieved by other means.

That said, IF there actually is an advantage to asymmetrical tires, reversing them on one side would cause a detriment on that side.


CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
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