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#4449590 - 07/04/17 04:44 PM VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+
Seventh Offline


Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 234
Loc: NorCal
Haven't seen a VOA on this oil here, and I'm virtually swimming in the stuff, so I thought I'd send some in. Delivered from supplier less than a month ago but date code is August 2016. Sample from sealed "Mini" labeled bottle, but I'm certain it's exactly the same as BMW branded 0w-20.

I've been running this in my wife's 2014 Forester for quite a while now, after initially only using the idemitsu 0w-20, and it definitely runs quieter on the BMW juice.

Also, it provides "maximum racing feels." Haha







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#4449603 - 07/04/17 05:01 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 2951
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.
_________________________
beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.

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#4449627 - 07/04/17 05:17 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: beanoil]
RichardS Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 616
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.


Hey, it might! I don't see that blackstone checks for gold or platinum content
_________________________
2008 Dodge Caliber SE 2.0 117k
4qt Imeditsu 0w-20, 1/2qt Mobil SS 5w-20 Fram HM

2003 Buick Century 107k
4.5q Havoline 5w-30 HM Fram XG

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#4449639 - 07/04/17 05:26 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Its a Shell Oil product. BMW contracted with them to make this. People have wondered if its really Pennz Plat 0w20, and we can see it is not. Pennz Plat 0w20 doesn't use boron at all.
The Pennz Ultra 0w20 does have some boron, so it could be its a close cousin to Pennz Ultra 0w20. The only VOA I find of Pennz Ultra is the 5w30 flavor, not a fully fair comparison, yet the calcium, moly, and boron levels are about identical this LL-14FE+ oil.

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#4449700 - 07/04/17 06:14 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: beanoil]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.

Thats Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 territory on price. I'd go with the Annual Protection if given the choice. Of course, with the "racing feeling" the Mini claims on the back. ... Marketing... duh

How does one become "swimming" in Mini oil? A dealer?


Edited by oil_film_movies (07/04/17 06:17 PM)

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#4449770 - 07/04/17 07:21 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: oil_film_movies]
Seventh Offline


Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 234
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.

Thats Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 territory on price. I'd go with the Annual Protection if given the choice. Of course, with the "racing feeling" the Mini claims on the back. ... Marketing... duh

How does one become "swimming" in Mini oil? A dealer?


Yes BMW/Mini dealer tech

I have no experience at all with M1AP, but I can say that I see cars weekly that have gone 15-20k on this oil. Cars with turbocharged engines, in a climate that is 100 degrees plus virtually all summer long.

Owners that completely ignore the dashboard telling them to go in for service. (More so the Mini crowd) Even when they have free maintenance plans haha.

And they still run fine. Yes it isn't cheap, but it is a solid oil from my field observations.

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#4449807 - 07/04/17 07:59 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
Audios Offline


Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 884
Loc: Lyndhurst NJ
Do you have an Oil Saver at your box? I used to get tons of free oil just from draining the bottles when I was at BMW. So much waste though, everything was individual quarts, some days I went through 40-50 quarts, since they all took minimum of 7. Everything got the Castrol 5/30 for a few years after i left haha.
_________________________
2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL

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#4449852 - 07/04/17 08:42 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Audios]
Seventh Offline


Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 234
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: Audios
Do you have an Oil Saver at your box? I used to get tons of free oil just from draining the bottles when I was at BMW. So much waste though, everything was individual quarts, some days I went through 40-50 quarts, since they all took minimum of 7. Everything got the Castrol 5/30 for a few years after i left haha.


I absolutely do. I have one for the 0w-20 and one for the LL-01 5w-30. The 0w-30 (LL-01FE) comes from an overhead hose reel with a digital measurement display. The 0w-20, 5w-30, and all others we get in bottles. I'm really only interested in saving the two, though.

Everyone in the shop knows I hoard the two particular oils, and they give me all their empties and partial bottles. I probably have 20+ oil changes worth of 0w-20 for my wife's Forester stashed away in the garage, and I often give away some of my shop stash to coworkers when they need some for their own cars.

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#4449854 - 07/04/17 08:46 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: beanoil]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.

Up here, that would be a bargain for 1 L bottles. wink
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4449999 - 07/05/17 12:10 AM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Seventh, Does BMW approve this 0w20 for all B58 six-cylinder engines? Aftermarket part sellers all say you can, yet the Owners Manual for 2016 BMW 340i B58 says only LL-01 and LL-01FE are allowed. Maybe BMW came out with a statement saying its OK to use this thinner stuff in the B58. N20, sure, its known to be used for that, but using it in B58 engines might be new, if ECS Tuning and Turner Motorsports (parts companies) are right.

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#4450026 - 07/05/17 01:48 AM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: oil_film_movies]
Seventh Offline


Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 234
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Seventh, Does BMW approve this 0w20 for all B58 six-cylinder engines? Aftermarket part sellers all say you can, yet the Owners Manual for 2016 BMW 340i B58 says only LL-01 and LL-01FE are allowed. Maybe BMW came out with a statement saying its OK to use this thinner stuff in the B58. N20, sure, its known to be used for that, but using it in B58 engines might be new, if ECS Tuning and Turner Motorsports (parts companies) are right.


We always put the 0w30 FE oil in them, but I'm sure the 0w20 would be fine, I'll have to look for actual specs at work next chance I get.

For instance, the early (14-15) Mini B38 and B48 engines call for LL-01 oil in the manual. Then they had us (recall) peel off all the oil recommendation labels from the cars that said 5w30, and we started filling them with the 0w30 LL-01FE. Then the '16 cars came out and they had stickers calling for 0w20LL-14FE+.

No mechanical/internal changes to the engines whatsoever, according to the higher ups we asked. It's almost like you can just put whatever you want in them.

I wouldn't put the 0w20 in a B58 if I was really planning on driving the wheels off it, but for commuter/light duty purposes it would probably be fine.

I'll see if I can find some documentation on it

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#4450176 - 07/05/17 08:49 AM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Seventh, thanks for the inside info. I can't find any "official" BMW statements on the internet on the issue of using 0w20 in the B58.

I feel confident in using an oil only when the BMW engineers confirm the oil film thickness is good enough. If you've seen some of the engineering studies published, you will notice that every engine design has an HTHS you must never go below. There is a sudden increase in wear when you get too low of an HTHS. That of course is different for each engine type. Stay anywhere above the minimum, and the wear rate appears to be very constant.

Those engineering studies I saw used an engine where HTHS=2.3 was the absolute minimum, and LL-14FE+ has an HTHS=2.7, so some fuel dilution margin is there.
Depends on bearing area, cam lobe area, and timing chain design where the "floor" of HTHS will be.

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#4450373 - 07/05/17 12:13 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1224
Loc: Oregon
Thanks for the VOA. Would love to compare it to PUP 0W-20.
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4451894 - 07/06/17 11:25 PM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: oil_film_movies]
Seventh Offline


Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 234
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Seventh, thanks for the inside info. I can't find any "official" BMW statements on the internet on the issue of using 0w20 in the B58.

I feel confident in using an oil only when the BMW engineers confirm the oil film thickness is good enough. If you've seen some of the engineering studies published, you will notice that every engine design has an HTHS you must never go below. There is a sudden increase in wear when you get too low of an HTHS. That of course is different for each engine type. Stay anywhere above the minimum, and the wear rate appears to be very constant.

Those engineering studies I saw used an engine where HTHS=2.3 was the absolute minimum, and LL-14FE+ has an HTHS=2.7, so some fuel dilution margin is there.
Depends on bearing area, cam lobe area, and timing chain design where the "floor" of HTHS will be.


Pardon the delay in response, but I did confirm the 0w20 oil is okay for use in the B58. Not only is it ok, but it's what some of the cars call for on the sticker under the hood.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it, however after talking to some folks it seems that it's mostly on the 2017 and up F30/31/32 (non-M cars). Maybe even late production 16 cars. Possibly for fuel economy reasons?

My co worker has a 2017 F22 M240, and his sticker calls for 0w30.

I'm thinking it's exactly like the Mini B38/48 situation I mentioned, where there is no internal difference in the engines whatsoever, but they all of a sudden call for 0w20 instead of 0/5w30. Makes no sense at all to me, but it is approved for B58 long story short.

However, I was unable to locate any document that specifically states it.

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#4452072 - 07/07/17 07:43 AM Re: VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+ [Re: Seventh]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Seventh
.... I did confirm the 0w20 oil is okay for use in the B58. Not only is it ok, but it's what some of the cars call for on the sticker under the hood....... However, I was unable to locate any document that specifically states it.

Good info. That explains why I couldn't find any public internet BMW documents. Kinda weird. BMW Owners Manuals should be clear to the owner. Othe car makers get sloppy with Owners Manual wording too.

Looks like LL-01FE and LL-14FE+ is practically merging with dexos1 performance levels, now that they match basic viscometrics.

I'd probably still put LL-01, high HTHS, oil in 'M' BMWs, just in case.

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