What does ACEA A1/B1 mean?

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I was at Wally World browsing the motor oils. I was looking at what other 5W20 oils for the Escape. I'm using the Magnatec on my first change that I have on hand.

I noticed on the Castrol EDGE 5W20 it has the A1/B1 spec plus GF-5 and the other GM and Ford specs it meets.
The Magnatec does not list the A1/B1 nor does M1 5w20.

Is the A/B1 a 'better' more stout spec?
 
The ACEA ratings are the European ratings. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the ACEA removed A1/B1 classifications last year? According to oilspecifications.org, it was removed and if that is the case, the new full synthetic Magnatec formulation wouldn't have had the need to get the A1/B1 classification.

I do have a somewhat similar question though:

My Elantra manual states to use an oil that is API SN/GF-5 and that is "A5/B5 or higher". I don't concern myself too much with it as I look mostly at API Specs/Dexos qualifications, but I wasn't exactly sure what it means by "or higher". Would A3/B3 and A3/B4 be considered higher or lower than A5/B5?
 
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
A1/B1 is a fuel economy oriented spec that has been superceded by A5/B5.
A3/B4 is a high performance spec which does not focus on fuel economy at all.


Got it. I'm still a noob on what all the oil designations are.
It almost sounds like the A3/A4 would be better for a direct injected turbo like the 1.6
WSS-M2C945-A is Fords spec for 5w20.
 
Using A3/B4 oil in an engine speccing A1/B1 , A5/B5 or A3/B3 is fine.
Now i don't think you're gonna find too many 5W-20s with a HTHS of over 3.5 ( required to meet A3/B4 )
To get a A3/B4 oil you'll need a 5W-30 at least.
 
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Using A3/B4 oil in an engine speccing A1/B1 , A5/B5 or A3/B3 is fine.
Now i don't think you're gonna find too many 5W-20s with a HTHS of over 3.5 ( required to meet A3/B4 )
To get a A3/B4 oil you'll need a 5W-30 at least.


None I looked at have that spec. Its still under power train warranty so I may need to keep it 5w20 for now.
 
A1/B1 hasn't been superseded by A5/B5. It's a current ACEA category. Most ACEA oils are synthetic or synthetic-blend -- sort of like dexos1 and dexos2 as others pointed out.

A1/B1 is mid-SAPS, while A3/B4 and A5/B5 are high-SAPS. Many car manufactures are recommending low-SAPS (such as ACEA C1 and ACEA C4 and also ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 to some extent) for direct-injection engines, as high-SAPS oils have shown to lead to catastrophic intake-valve deposits in these engines. I don't think it's a good idea to use a high-SAPS (high-ash) oil in a direct-injection engine for that reason. It will probably void your power-train and emissions warranty as well. Stay with what is recommended.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A1/B1 hasn't been superseded by A5/B5. It's a current ACEA category. Most ACEA oils are synthetic or synthetic-blend -- sort of like dexos1 and dexos2 as others pointed out.

A1/B1 is mid-SAPS, while A3/B4 and A5/B5 are high-SAPS. Many car manufactures are recommending low-SAPS (such as ACEA C1 and ACEA C4 and also ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 to some extent) for direct-injection engines, as high-SAPS oils have shown to lead to catastrophic intake-valve deposits in these engines. I don't think it's a good idea to use a high-SAPS (high-ash) oil in a direct-injection engine for that reason. It will probably void your power-train and emissions warranty as well. Stay with what is recommended.


ACEA defines all A/B oils are high SAPS, C2/C3/C5 as mid SAPS and C1 and C4 as low SAPS.
 
Originally Posted By: chiefsfan1
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Using A3/B4 oil in an engine speccing A1/B1 , A5/B5 or A3/B3 is fine.
Now i don't think you're gonna find too many 5W-20s with a HTHS of over 3.5 ( required to meet A3/B4 )
To get a A3/B4 oil you'll need a 5W-30 at least.


None I looked at have that spec. Its still under power train warranty so I may need to keep it 5w20 for now.

Another reason for keeping within spec is if the engine has variable valve timing. Many systems use oil to pressurize the VVT system. If a "thicker" oil is used, the cams might not adjust as far/fast as the computer is programmed to see; and will not be able to make the engine run within parameters.
 
Here is a good presentation (PDF link) on what high-SAPS oils can do the valves of direct-injection gasoline engines. I would avoid high-SAPS/full-SAPS (FS) oils (such as ACEA A3/B4 M1/M1 FS 0W-40 European Formula and GC 0W-30/0W-40 German Castrol) in these engines for this reason. This is one example of why it's usually better to go with the recommended oil.

ZIAYxQYiYp0I8kB0Wug0KORsEU-kGnJH6GeRk_sRQVu1dzQQGYh9Hj-41hj7ChVwLYNsyY5TqojsaD6TYaM2DE4Lpz5eZ3BfHxq3e0MhSJu8fG6m2iZkf84uII8YK2ewJZQNr9NZQz3gtjWrgm5-Mv7LWvWEK-O2TwEjxCGQLnufxHAYK9rGmyVd7yJB0MZR9Vmt2QrXpm1EC15wYBu57Sq7syW4q852RAC_jqwo3oI93Y14-3pkd0qYguYlrZJGKa_M0U7gmoNugVUiuQgRtAHWN0LMuIhtfKWK-Bv2eZKouE2xTsVSPuFJP0_eH4zWCQeev0MuyyP6WxnXpB_DCEeyDmmD-ofRG9mepGmuzqQHD9_wKY8QEMC1BVH_VMejlJf7OCEgqg44zYtJH3vACkxmZ15_9u0l41VX14qfwaY9KucUDMwNPTkmzCyx83hoaUDbN9VcIGM0egox3PvyNVVr77aLtvFerCoPL-ApC8cvWneHYyNU8xU3XgT1W1GzO04MDhPIrdyb44UqmxI-7dxQvfo2tSAGwY_AQL84eTIlbaMVP-VQSrSRNf2xfmpKMCaQ1aixFOWNj_tWu9wpIbgMvwoiK4agqtdZHIQF9Hzxhm_fD_dK3A=w1600-no
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A1/B1 hasn't been superseded by A5/B5. It's a current ACEA category. Most ACEA oils are synthetic or synthetic-blend -- sort of like dexos1 and dexos2 as others pointed out.

A1/B1 is mid-SAPS, while A3/B4 and A5/B5 are high-SAPS. Many car manufactures are recommending low-SAPS (such as ACEA C1 and ACEA C4 and also ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 to some extent) for direct-injection engines, as high-SAPS oils have shown to lead to catastrophic intake-valve deposits in these engines. I don't think it's a good idea to use a high-SAPS (high-ash) oil in a direct-injection engine for that reason. It will probably void your power-train and emissions warranty as well. Stay with what is recommended.



Got it. Thanks for explaining this.
Now to reconsider to run the clearance Magnatec 5W20 that I have on hand or move up to EDGE 5W20.
The thing is short tripped. That's why I'm looking for a stout oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A1/B1 hasn't been superseded by A5/B5. It's a current ACEA category.

A1/B1 is mid-SAPS, while A3/B4 and A5/B5 are high-SAPS.


No, A1/B1 has been removed from the most recent 2016 ACEA sequences, please see the link already given.

Also, all the A/B sequences are high-SAPS, it's the C sequences that are low or mid SAPS. The main difference was A1/B1 and A5/B5 were low HTHS (below 3.5 cP) while A3/B3 and A3/B4 are HTHS (above 3.5 cP).

Originally Posted By: LotI
2016 ACEA oil sequences


OP, the Euro A1/B1 spec is a good quality spec, and still often claimed as the change is fairly recent. I've only seen it on full synthetic oils, and is a big step up over SN & GF-5, just like Dexos1 is a good step up too.

From memory A1/B1 is still claimed by PP, Castrol Edge and M1 (listed on the spec sheet for the 5W30).

Also, A5/B5 is a similar and even higher quality spec, so anything with A5/B5 also meets A1/B1.

If you can't get A1/B1 or A5/B5 then get a full synthetic Dexos1 oil and you should be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
No, A1/B1 has been removed from the most recent 2016 ACEA sequences, please see the link already given.

Thank you.

Quote:
Also, all the A/B sequences are high-SAPS, it's the C sequences that are low or mid SAPS. The main difference was A1/B1 and A5/B5 were low HTHS (below 3.5 cP) while A3/B3 and A3/B4 are HTHS (above 3.5 cP).

I somewhat disagree on this one.

A3/B4 is as high-SAPS or full-SAPS as it gets. For example M1 FS (full-SAPS) A3/B4 0W-40 has 1.3% sulphated ash (SA). M1 5W-30 A1/B1 is 0.8% SA on the other hand. The reason for this is that there is a lower limit on SA for A3/B4 (1.0%) but there is no lower limit at all for SA for A1/B1 or A5/B5.

However, with the A1/B1 category, which had a lower maximum SA limit, gone, the A5/B5 oils out there will have somewhat high SA, though not as high as A3/B4. For example I see that Castrol 0W-30 A5/B5 has 1.1% SA.

Again, for direct-injection gasoline engines, I would avoid the definitely full-SAPS/high-SAPS A3/B4 and usually high-SAPS A5/B5 oils.

Any recommended oil should be fine. Most API oils are mid-SAPS and they shouldn't be too bad for valve-deposit considerations, even if they are dual API- and ACEA A1/B1- or A5/B5-rated. Just avoid the A3/B4 stuff such as M1 0W-40, GC 0W-30/0W-40, etc. or the non-API A1/B1 or A5/B5 stuff if you can find any, the latter of which is unlikely in USA.
 
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