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Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 #4445806
06/30/17 09:37 AM
06/30/17 09:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 534
Louisiana
SuzukiGoat Offline OP
SuzukiGoat  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 534
Louisiana
I'm on my phone and can't find the oily analysis for each. Can anyone explain what the differences between the two are?

Last edited by SuzukiGoat; 06/30/17 09:39 AM.

2003 Nissan Xterra 4x4 M1 HM 10w40
2001 Toyota 4runner 4x4 M1 0w40
2016 Yamaha YXZ1000R VR1 20w50

Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4445834
06/30/17 10:07 AM
06/30/17 10:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
ZDDP concentration is the same for both.
According to the Valvoline PI sheets :
Cst 100c : 20.0 ( SYN ) and 21.1 ( Regular )
Cst 40c : 147 ( SYN ) and 193 ( Regular )
Viscosity Index : 154 ( SYN ) 129 ( Regular )
TBN : 8.5 ( SYN ) and 11.8 ( Regular )
Flash point : 230c ( SYN ) and 228c ( Regular )
Pour pint : -36C ( SYN ) and -33C ( Regular )

The synthetic has a lower viscosity at 40c which is to be expected, higher Viscosity index which would also be expected, slightly better flash point, slightly better pour point...
The regular VR1 20W-50 is already good, the synthetic is just a tad better.

Although if you wanted a stout high ZDDP synthetic 50 grade i'd steer more towards M1 15W-50 just because it's much more readily available in the States.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4445849
06/30/17 10:23 AM
06/30/17 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
+1 on the M1 15W-50. Probably the best value racing/street rod oil out there. Used by many racers with success over much more expensive oils.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4445890
06/30/17 11:29 AM
06/30/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 534
Louisiana
SuzukiGoat Offline OP
SuzukiGoat  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 534
Louisiana
Any harm or benefit to running a 2:1 ratio of dino to syn? I have about 60 quarts of one and 30 of the other. Only one unit that takes 20w50.


2003 Nissan Xterra 4x4 M1 HM 10w40
2001 Toyota 4runner 4x4 M1 0w40
2016 Yamaha YXZ1000R VR1 20w50

Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4445941
06/30/17 12:33 PM
06/30/17 12:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
I'm sure they are perfectly mixable, you can make whatever frankenbrew you like.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4445951
06/30/17 12:49 PM
06/30/17 12:49 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Both very good oils.

Avoid the M1 15w-50. It's a knockdown when it comes to shear. Developed a great reputation under its old formula, but is now a weak oil compared to the other 50 weight performance oils on the market.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4445969
06/30/17 01:19 PM
06/30/17 01:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
I certainly haven't ever heard of anybody having any kind of a problem from using M1 15W-50, many people swear by it, and on paper it still looks good.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4446007
06/30/17 02:24 PM
06/30/17 02:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
Yeah, if you can get VR-1, that's the way I'd go. Been proven in countless drag cars for a long time. No questions about the oil (either one). Dino if you want, or syn if you lean that way smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4447990
07/03/17 04:05 AM
07/03/17 04:05 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I certainly haven't ever heard of anybody having any kind of a problem from using M1 15W-50, many people swear by it, and on paper it still looks good.


Well known to run away with heat shear. We've changed M1 15-50 out of engines that started having oil pressure problems when hot and restored 15-30 psi hot oil pressure just by replacing it with VR1 or Schaeffer.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: SuzukiGoat] #4448046
07/03/17 07:30 AM
07/03/17 07:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,660
Balearic Islands , Spain
Didn't know that.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: DoubleWasp] #4448208
07/03/17 10:34 AM
07/03/17 10:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I certainly haven't ever heard of anybody having any kind of a problem from using M1 15W-50, many people swear by it, and on paper it still looks good.


Well known to run away with heat shear. We've changed M1 15-50 out of engines that started having oil pressure problems when hot and restored 15-30 psi hot oil pressure just by replacing it with VR1 or Schaeffer.


Wow, good to know.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: DoubleWasp] #4448239
07/03/17 11:00 AM
07/03/17 11:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,537
Oregon
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Well known to run away with heat shear. We've changed M1 15-50 out of engines that started having oil pressure problems when hot and restored 15-30 psi hot oil pressure just by replacing it with VR1 or Schaeffer.


Was that VR1 synthetic or mineral? How would you say it compares to royal purple HPS? XPR?


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4464585
07/20/17 06:32 AM
07/20/17 06:32 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Well known to run away with heat shear. We've changed M1 15-50 out of engines that started having oil pressure problems when hot and restored 15-30 psi hot oil pressure just by replacing it with VR1 or Schaeffer.


Was that VR1 synthetic or mineral? How would you say it compares to royal purple HPS? XPR?


I'd like to note that there is a UOA in the motorcycle forum of a Harley Davidson engine running M1 15/50 that held viscosity over 5400 miles. That's an eternity for an oil in a Harley engine. There might have been a change in formulation. Harley engines are usually big time shear monsters of even the best oils. This does not mean the oil didn't undergo heat shear under temp, but is an indicator this oil may have gotten more survivable.

We've used VR1 syn and mineral both. We tend to use the syn in the real heat monsters, such as the engines with smaller or no oil engine oil coolers. Heat where oil temp is concerned. Not engine water/coolant temp. They don't track together in boats. I've seen 155F on the water temp and 250-280 on the oil temp. The high-rpm/high-load does a real numbers on the engine oil. It is worth noting that we haven't had any problems at all with the conventional. Use of the syn may be totally unnecessary.

We don't mess with Royal Purple. I don't doubt that it's a good oil, but there's not enough info out there on it being used in marine applications for us to give it a go.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Valvoline Vr1 high zinc 20w50 vs vr1 syn 20w50 [Re: DoubleWasp] #4465132
07/20/17 04:08 PM
07/20/17 04:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 534
Louisiana
SuzukiGoat Offline OP
SuzukiGoat  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 534
Louisiana
I have been running a blend this fill. 2 quarts of dino and one quart of syn. I have noticed a little more startup noise (dry sump application) but a slightly lower heat reading at the external oil tank.

Put roughly 500 miles on the fillup earlier this week. Over 7k rpm for the majority of those miles. Only 4 stops throughout that time. Quite a few blasts to 11k rpm.

It will be interesting to see what the next oil analysis says.

Draining and sending at 1500 miles indicated (1725 actual).


2003 Nissan Xterra 4x4 M1 HM 10w40
2001 Toyota 4runner 4x4 M1 0w40
2016 Yamaha YXZ1000R VR1 20w50


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