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What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? #4445691
06/30/17 06:47 AM
06/30/17 06:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
chiefsfan1 Offline OP
chiefsfan1  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
I was at Wally World browsing the motor oils. I was looking at what other 5W20 oils for the Escape. I'm using the Magnatec on my first change that I have on hand.

I noticed on the Castrol EDGE 5W20 it has the A1/B1 spec plus GF-5 and the other GM and Ford specs it meets.
The Magnatec does not list the A1/B1 nor does M1 5w20.

Is the A/B1 a 'better' more stout spec?


MacBean Clan Motto: Touch Not A Catt Bot A Targe. (Don't touch this cat without a shield).


2011 Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 I4
2014 Escape SE 1.6 EcoBoost AWD
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445713
06/30/17 07:13 AM
06/30/17 07:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 616
DFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 616
DFW
The ACEA ratings are the European ratings. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the ACEA removed A1/B1 classifications last year? According to oilspecifications.org, it was removed and if that is the case, the new full synthetic Magnatec formulation wouldn't have had the need to get the A1/B1 classification.

I do have a somewhat similar question though:

My Elantra manual states to use an oil that is API SN/GF-5 and that is "A5/B5 or higher". I don't concern myself too much with it as I look mostly at API Specs/Dexos qualifications, but I wasn't exactly sure what it means by "or higher". Would A3/B3 and A3/B4 be considered higher or lower than A5/B5?

Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445714
06/30/17 07:14 AM
06/30/17 07:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: wemay] #4445726
06/30/17 07:19 AM
06/30/17 07:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
chiefsfan1 Offline OP
chiefsfan1  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
Originally Posted By: wemay


Oh great. Thanks! It just caught my eye when I saw that on the bottle.


MacBean Clan Motto: Touch Not A Catt Bot A Targe. (Don't touch this cat without a shield).


2011 Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 I4
2014 Escape SE 1.6 EcoBoost AWD
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445727
06/30/17 07:19 AM
06/30/17 07:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
Dexos1 (Magnatec 5W20 meets this spec) is considered a tougher spec than SN/GF-5, here's how A1/B1 compares to Dexos1...





http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand1/





18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: wemay] #4445750
06/30/17 07:48 AM
06/30/17 07:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
chiefsfan1 Offline OP
chiefsfan1  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
Originally Posted By: wemay
Dexos1 (Magnatec 5W20 meets this spec) is considered a tougher spec than SN/GF-5, here's how A1/B1 compares to Dexos1...





http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand1/





Thanks. Interesting.


MacBean Clan Motto: Touch Not A Catt Bot A Targe. (Don't touch this cat without a shield).


2011 Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 I4
2014 Escape SE 1.6 EcoBoost AWD
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445752
06/30/17 07:51 AM
06/30/17 07:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,414
America's Dairyland
LotI Offline
LotI  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,414
America's Dairyland


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450
17 VW GTI
[IMG]http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/803455.png[/IMG]
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: LotI] #4445770
06/30/17 08:04 AM
06/30/17 08:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
chiefsfan1 Offline OP
chiefsfan1  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
Originally Posted By: LotI


Thanks.


MacBean Clan Motto: Touch Not A Catt Bot A Targe. (Don't touch this cat without a shield).


2011 Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 I4
2014 Escape SE 1.6 EcoBoost AWD
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445844
06/30/17 09:18 AM
06/30/17 09:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,798
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,798
Balearic Islands , Spain
A1/B1 is a fuel economy oriented spec that has been superceded by A5/B5.
A3/B4 is a high performance spec which does not focus on fuel economy at all.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4445946
06/30/17 11:41 AM
06/30/17 11:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
chiefsfan1 Offline OP
chiefsfan1  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
A1/B1 is a fuel economy oriented spec that has been superceded by A5/B5.
A3/B4 is a high performance spec which does not focus on fuel economy at all.


Got it. I'm still a noob on what all the oil designations are.
It almost sounds like the A3/A4 would be better for a direct injected turbo like the 1.6
WSS-M2C945-A is Fords spec for 5w20.


MacBean Clan Motto: Touch Not A Catt Bot A Targe. (Don't touch this cat without a shield).


2011 Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 I4
2014 Escape SE 1.6 EcoBoost AWD
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445953
06/30/17 11:50 AM
06/30/17 11:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,798
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,798
Balearic Islands , Spain
Using A3/B4 oil in an engine speccing A1/B1 , A5/B5 or A3/B3 is fine.
Now i don't think you're gonna find too many 5W-20s with a HTHS of over 3.5 ( required to meet A3/B4 )
To get a A3/B4 oil you'll need a 5W-30 at least.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4445964
06/30/17 12:14 PM
06/30/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
chiefsfan1 Offline OP
chiefsfan1  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,152
Missouri
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Using A3/B4 oil in an engine speccing A1/B1 , A5/B5 or A3/B3 is fine.
Now i don't think you're gonna find too many 5W-20s with a HTHS of over 3.5 ( required to meet A3/B4 )
To get a A3/B4 oil you'll need a 5W-30 at least.


None I looked at have that spec. Its still under power train warranty so I may need to keep it 5w20 for now.


MacBean Clan Motto: Touch Not A Catt Bot A Targe. (Don't touch this cat without a shield).


2011 Toyota Camry XLE 2.5 I4
2014 Escape SE 1.6 EcoBoost AWD
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4445967
06/30/17 12:17 PM
06/30/17 12:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,798
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,798
Balearic Islands , Spain
That's a good idea, i'm not saying that a 5W-30 A3/B4 oil would necessarily be a better oil than what Ford recomends, but it won't do any harm either.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: chiefsfan1] #4446107
06/30/17 03:47 PM
06/30/17 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,433
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline
Gokhan  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,433
Los Angeles, California
A1/B1 hasn't been superseded by A5/B5. It's a current ACEA category. Most ACEA oils are synthetic or synthetic-blend -- sort of like dexos1 and dexos2 as others pointed out.

A1/B1 is mid-SAPS, while A3/B4 and A5/B5 are high-SAPS. Many car manufactures are recommending low-SAPS (such as ACEA C1 and ACEA C4 and also ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 to some extent) for direct-injection engines, as high-SAPS oils have shown to lead to catastrophic intake-valve deposits in these engines. I don't think it's a good idea to use a high-SAPS (high-ash) oil in a direct-injection engine for that reason. It will probably void your power-train and emissions warranty as well. Stay with what is recommended.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 271,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN high-moly GTL (© 2015 reformulation)
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: What does ACEA A1/B1 mean? [Re: Gokhan] #4446150
06/30/17 05:01 PM
06/30/17 05:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 396
West Yorkshire, UK
NGRhodes Offline
NGRhodes  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 396
West Yorkshire, UK
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A1/B1 hasn't been superseded by A5/B5. It's a current ACEA category. Most ACEA oils are synthetic or synthetic-blend -- sort of like dexos1 and dexos2 as others pointed out.

A1/B1 is mid-SAPS, while A3/B4 and A5/B5 are high-SAPS. Many car manufactures are recommending low-SAPS (such as ACEA C1 and ACEA C4 and also ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 to some extent) for direct-injection engines, as high-SAPS oils have shown to lead to catastrophic intake-valve deposits in these engines. I don't think it's a good idea to use a high-SAPS (high-ash) oil in a direct-injection engine for that reason. It will probably void your power-train and emissions warranty as well. Stay with what is recommended.


ACEA defines all A/B oils are high SAPS, C2/C3/C5 as mid SAPS and C1 and C4 as low SAPS.

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