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#4444494 - 06/29/17 02:16 AM Question on 30wt oils
Ammofirst Offline


Registered: 06/22/17
Posts: 353
Loc: Western usa
I've been looking at options for our 2014 Buick Regal turbo. I do like the characteristics of the oils rated A3. We've had good luck With PP 10w-30 year round. (Took a 2007 Saturn aura with the infamous 3.6L v6 to 164k no issues) I'm just thinking it might be a little thin for this car : gm 2.0T LTG : I believe. Possibly : Mobil 1 10w-30HM ? Are there any other options for a 30wt oil with a HTHS of 3.5 > Thanks

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#4444508 - 06/29/17 03:36 AM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
You can get things like Castrol Edge 0W-30 or 5W-30 A3/B4 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-30 that are rated A3, but they may be a little hard to find.

Consider 0W-40 in the form of Castrol Edge or M1 as they are both A3/B4 oils and have a HTHS around 3.6 cP, same with PP Euro 5W-40.

The thick Euro 30's are very close to the thin Euro 40's, as long as they are A3 rated you will be fine.

You could also look at a dual rated HDEO in 10W-30 flavour, as they all have a HTHS of 3.5 cP or more. (API CK-4)

Don't forget the mid-SAPS version of ACEA A3 is ACEA C3 so you could consider oils like M1 5W30 ESP which is a C3 oil with a HTHS of 3.5 cP and a SAPS level of 0.8% (same as many Dexos1 oils). Valvoline SynPower MST in 5W30 or 5W40 are both C3 and would work nicely too. You can get PP Euro L as a C3 oil too.

Lots of choice out there.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4444519 - 06/29/17 04:57 AM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24586
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
When you can find it, Shell Rotella Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 would be another option. Of course, it's neither dexos1 nor GF-5 if you're under warranty and that happens to be a concern to you.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4444557 - 06/29/17 06:29 AM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
Any SAE 30. Yes, I said it. There is no reason why a modern conventional 30wt wouldn't be suitable for a di and turbocharged modern car engine. They are easily capable of the same OCI as synthetic.
_________________________
'89 Chevy 1500
Napa 20/50
'15 Chevy Cruze
AcDelco syn dexos 5/30

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#4444577 - 06/29/17 07:15 AM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
Ammofirst Offline


Registered: 06/22/17
Posts: 353
Loc: Western usa
I've noticed the euro 5w-30's do meet a3/b4 I just don't see them at Wally World. They typically end up being about double in price. I guess the Mobil 1 10w-30HM is fine but I lose the dexos cert. for warranty. Thanks for the heads up on ACEA C3. If I go with a mid saps option how much should I dial back the OCI? Was considering 10k on full SAPS. Did I read somewhere about these mid saps oils offering less deposits ?

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#4444613 - 06/29/17 08:15 AM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: Austin, Texas
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
I've noticed the euro 5w-30's do meet a3/b4 I just don't see them at Wally World. They typically end up being about double in price. I guess the Mobil 1 10w-30HM is fine but I lose the dexos cert. for warranty. Thanks for the heads up on ACEA C3. If I go with a mid saps option how much should I dial back the OCI? Was considering 10k on full SAPS. Did I read somewhere about these mid saps oils offering less deposits ?


The Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30 is available at 4 out of the 5 Walmarts near me. Maybe check the Walmart website for a location near you?
_________________________
2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS 6MT 2.4GDI, M1 5w30, OEM filter, 2007 Kia Rondo LX 2.4 I4 5 pass, M1EP 5w30, OEM filter

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#4444778 - 06/29/17 10:15 AM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5518
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Well, western USA does not really tell us where you are. In LA you could run SAE 30 HD year round. In the Cascades or Yreka or Susanville, prolly not ...

Climate has to do with winter rate (xW) needed. As far as the running viscosity (at op temp), either a stout 30 or a thin 40- would be good smile
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4445230 - 06/29/17 06:02 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
I guess the Mobil 1 10w-30HM is fine but I lose the dexos cert. for warranty. Thanks for the heads up on ACEA C3. If I go with a mid saps option how much should I dial back the OCI? Was considering 10k on full SAPS. Did I read somewhere about these mid saps oils offering less deposits ?


Yes M1 10W-30 HM is a great oil, I would happily use it. But you will never find an oil that is both A3 and Dexos1, as the Dexos1 oil is low HTHS resource conserving ( about 2.9 to 3.2 cP) while the A3 oil is high HTHS (about 3.5 to 3.6 cP). Also 10W30 is not a Dexos grade, the only 30 grade is 5W30 under dexos. I sure wish they did allow 10W30, it's a great shear stable and low volatility oil grade, but not suitable for very cold climates, and I suspect GM want Dexos oils to be suitable for most expected climates.

If you want a high HTHS Dexos oil, then you should get a Dexos2 oil, as this is close to a ACEA C3 oil by another name. It's not just for diesels, but also petrol/gas engines under high stress or race conditions.

Here is a link to the Valvoline SynPower oil data sheet (Here)

You can see the American ILSAC / Dexos1 oils have a SAPS / SA level of 0.93 %, and for another data point regular M1 5W30 has a SAPS / Sulphated Ash of 0.8 %. This is your regular SAPS level.

Now the Euro A3 oils are true high SAPS oils, with SA of about 1.2 %, for Euro long-life ratings, often used for 20k miles or 2 years in Europe. But the mid-SAPS C3 oils have a SA of 0.78 %, basically 0.8% or a touch under. But this is the same as regular M1 5W30.

In my opinion, anybody using a ILSAC GF-5 or Dexos1 oil, is already using a mid-SAPS oil due to the limits imposed by ILSAC and Dexos. Going to a C3 oil shouldn't make much difference. If you use a Dexos2 C3 oil, you should be able to follow your GM OLM. If you are still concerned change at 20% or 7500 miles.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4445238 - 06/29/17 06:13 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: BrocLuno]
Ammofirst Offline


Registered: 06/22/17
Posts: 353
Loc: Western usa
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Well, western USA does not really tell us where you are. In LA you could run SAE 30 HD year round. In the Cascades or Yreka or Susanville, prolly not ...

Climate has to do with winter rate (xW) needed. As far as the running viscosity (at op temp), either a stout 30 or a thin 40- would be good smile
I'm located in Central Colorado (boonieville) about 6400 ft elev. temps smilar to Colo. Springs.

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#4445266 - 06/29/17 06:52 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
Here is a link to a UOA (used oil analysis) from a 2013 Chevy Camaro (6.2L LS3) that was tracked on Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 Euro L (ACEA C3, Dexos2).

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4444127/

It held up fine.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4445287 - 06/29/17 07:15 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: SR5]
Ammofirst Offline


Registered: 06/22/17
Posts: 353
Loc: Western usa
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
I guess the Mobil 1 10w-30HM is fine but I lose the dexos cert. for warranty. Thanks for the heads up on ACEA C3. If I go with a mid saps option how much should I dial back the OCI? Was considering 10k on full SAPS. Did I read somewhere about these mid saps oils offering less deposits ?


Yes M1 10W-30 HM is a great oil, I would happily use it. But you will never find an oil that is both A3 and Dexos1, as the Dexos1 oil is low HTHS resource conserving ( about 2.9 to 3.2 cP) while the A3 oil is high HTHS (about 3.5 to 3.6 cP). Also 10W30 is not a Dexos grade, the only 30 grade is 5W30 under dexos. I sure wish they did allow 10W30, it's a great shear stable and low volatility oil grade, but not suitable for very cold climates, and I suspect GM want Dexos oils to be suitable for most expected climates.

If you want a high HTHS Dexos oil, then you should get a Dexos2 oil, as this is close to a ACEA C3 oil by another name. It's not just for diesels, but also petrol/gas engines under high stress or race conditions.

Here is a link to the Valvoline SynPower oil data sheet (Here)

You can see the American ILSAC / Dexos1 oils have a SAPS / SA level of 0.93 %, and for another data point regular M1 5W30 has a SAPS / Sulphated Ash of 0.8 %. This is your regular SAPS level.

Now the Euro A3 oils are true high SAPS oils, with SA of about 1.2 %, for Euro long-life ratings, often used for 20k miles or 2 years in Europe. But the mid-SAPS C3 oils have a SA of 0.78 %, basically 0.8% or a touch under. But this is the same as regular M1 5W30.

In my opinion, anybody using a ILSAC GF-5 or Dexos1 oil, is already using a mid-SAPS oil due to the limits imposed by ILSAC and Dexos. Going to a C3 oil shouldn't make much difference. If you use a Dexos2 C3 oil, you should be able to follow your GM OLM. If you are still concerned change at 20% or 7500 miles.
Thanks very informative. Does Pennzoil consider this a low saps oil. http://mxtradings.com/Pennzoil/PU5w30EuroL.pdf

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#4445299 - 06/29/17 07:31 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
That is the old spec sheet, and yes that looks low SAPS to me (C2, VW 504/507. Porsche C30).

But this is the new spec sheet (here)

And to be honest, I can't quite tell it's SAPS level because it doesn't give much data, but my best guess is a mid-SAPS oil (C3, Dexos2).
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4445305 - 06/29/17 07:42 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Ammofirst]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
The big thing is you have a GM car. If you want to step your oil up a level run a Dexos2 oil.

Here in Oz, GM-Australia think the little Cruze with the 1.4 L iTi Turbo Petrol (Gas) engine is very stressful on oil, so they say to run a Dexos2 oil (not a Dexos1 oil). In fact from what I can tell, you void your warranty in Australia if you use Dexos1 in your 1.4 iTi engine. I directly asked and was told that Dexos1 was not approved here.

Dexos1 and Dexos2 have pretty much the same SAPS levels from all the examples I have seen. Just the Dexos2 has higher HTHS and I've only ever seen it as a full synthetic.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4445353 - 06/29/17 08:29 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: Red91]
4ever4d Offline


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 953
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Red91
Any SAE 30. Yes, I said it. There is no reason why a modern conventional 30wt wouldn't be suitable for a di and turbocharged modern car engine. They are easily capable of the same OCI as synthetic.

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
_________________________
04 Chevy Colorado 3.5 I5 5w-30 OEF
07 Honda Element 2.4 I4 5w-20 OEM
10 Nissan Rogue AWD 2.5 I4 5w-30 OEF
Amsoil Products & Fram or Wix Filters





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#4445513 - 06/29/17 11:11 PM Re: Question on 30wt oils [Re: SR5]
Ammofirst Offline


Registered: 06/22/17
Posts: 353
Loc: Western usa
Originally Posted By: SR5
The big thing is you have a GM car. If you want to step your oil up a level run a Dexos2 oil.

Here in Oz, GM-Australia think the little Cruze with the 1.4 L iTi Turbo Petrol (Gas) engine is very stressful on oil, so they say to run a Dexos2 oil (not a Dexos1 oil). In fact from what I can tell, you void your warranty in Australia if you use Dexos1 in your 1.4 iTi engine. I directly asked and was told that Dexos1 was not approved here.

Dexos1 and Dexos2 have pretty much the same SAPS levels from all the examples I have seen. Just the Dexos2 has higher HTHS and I've only ever seen it as a full synthetic.
You have got the exact info I was looking for, appreciate it. It's funny you mention the Cruze. (Is that your car?) I'm in a 2017 Cruze 1.4T rental and I'm shocked how much I like this car. It's NOTHING like a compact gm car from 10 years ago. Ride / handling / engine / interior It's very nice thu-out. Does the Acea C3 spec have a 3.5 min. HTHS ?

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