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trans lubrication on startup #4444327
06/28/17 08:08 PM
06/28/17 08:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 21
Canada British Columbia
MrTruckDriver Offline OP
MrTruckDriver  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 21
Canada British Columbia
Hi everyone. Ive found lots of good information on this forum for years and only just signed up.

this could be a dumb question but im having trouble finding clear information on the topic.

I'll try and keep the story short.
I just installed a bigger trans cooler on my truck. its a 09 gm with the 4l60e.
I mounted the cooler with the fittings pointed down same as the stock cooler i removed.

for the first start up i left the return line of the cooler unhooked. I had a helper start the truck. It took about 6 seconds before fluid came out of the return line.

apparently i can mount this cooler with the fittings pointed down.

my only concern is when i shut the enging off im pretty sure the fluid from the cooler would drain back into the trans.

will this be a lack of trasmission lubrication every time i start the truck?
 
thanks for any opinions on this.

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444340
06/28/17 08:15 PM
06/28/17 08:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,609
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,609
Santa Barbara, CA
Great, one more thing to stress about. I think you will be fine.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444393
06/28/17 09:15 PM
06/28/17 09:15 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 718
Canada
i_hate_autofraud Offline
i_hate_autofraud  Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 718
Canada


You'll be fine as long as you don't slam it into gear and stomp on the gas as you start it,
then yes, there might not be enough fluid pressure to operate clutches, etc, meaning it would
rev up then slam into gear as line pressure is developed - I'm sure you're not going to do that!

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444400
06/28/17 09:20 PM
06/28/17 09:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 420
Kentucky
Fsharp Offline
Fsharp  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 420
Kentucky
It may be only the cooler and the line to it that are empty and it takes a few seconds to fill.

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444422
06/28/17 09:50 PM
06/28/17 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,432
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Online content
clinebarger  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,432
Fort Worth, Texas
Transmissions are NOT engines, The lube circuit that is fed from the cooler is ONLY for the geartrain that is not spinning & has zero load with the truck stationary. The Pump has to prime, Build enough pressure to stroke the Pressure Regulator Valve, Then it's on through the Converter Clutch Apply Valve where some Converter Feed is dumped/regulated by the TCC Enable Solenoid, Then has to fill the Torque Converter, Then back to the Converter Clutch Valve, Then to the Cooler, Then back to the geartrain lube.
It ONLY took 6 seconds??



2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444429
06/28/17 09:59 PM
06/28/17 09:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 21
Canada British Columbia
MrTruckDriver Offline OP
MrTruckDriver  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 21
Canada British Columbia
wow! thanks for all the replies everyone that was fast.
okay it could have been a bit longer then 6 seconds maybe 10 definitely less then 15. i thought it was taking that long just to fill the new cooler my main concern was all the extra fluid it would take to fill the big cooler would delay lubrication.
i think its a lack of understanding on my part.

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444465
06/28/17 11:16 PM
06/28/17 11:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,110
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,110
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: MrTruckDriver
my main concern was all the extra fluid it would take to fill the big cooler would delay lubrication.


You have nothing to be concerned about.

The oil cooler circuit doesn't affect "transmission operation". ("generally" speaking)


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444573
06/29/17 05:59 AM
06/29/17 05:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 404
Alberta
tcp71 Offline
tcp71  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 404
Alberta
If the return line is below the level in the pan nothing will drain back as both input and output to the cooler are in the fluid level. It only drains when one side is open, like during your test. I discovered the same thing when adding a filter to the cooler lines on my 2009 F150 6R80 transmission. It only drains when a line is disconnected.


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: mobil 0w40 (varies)
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444585
06/29/17 06:25 AM
06/29/17 06:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,963
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,963
NY
You'll be fine. As already mentioned don't slam it in gear the second the engine fires up. I start the engine and wait for the tach to drop to 1,000 rpms or below. That eliminates any and all concerns I had about the engine and the transmission immediately after start up.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444594
06/29/17 06:52 AM
06/29/17 06:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,471
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,471
Malaysia
With the exception of one of the three planet gears and its bearing in a planetary gear system if any , all other gears and bearings within a manual/automatic transmission are designed to be partly submerged in transmission gear oils prior to starting.
The exception above i.e planet gear, would be submerged in oil within hundreds of millisecond upon forward/reverse vehicle movement.

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: zeng] #4444669
06/29/17 07:54 AM
06/29/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,110
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,110
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: zeng
With the exception of one of the three planet gears and its bearing in a planetary gear system if any , all other gears and bearings within a manual/automatic transmission are designed to be partly submerged in transmission gear oils prior to starting.


Not really. In most automatics, the planetaries are all well above the fluid level in the pan.

It still isn't an issue, though.

Very, VERY few automatic transmissions die due to any lubrication issues.
Most fail due to excessive heat/abuse.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444685
06/29/17 08:08 AM
06/29/17 08:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,193
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,193
Sunny Florida
^^^True. I remember the WA580 when it came out was touted as being among the first "dry sump" designs with almost all rotating parts kept out of the fluid. Plus it had real ball and roller bearings where many slushboxes used plain ones.

And as a side note, many mornings our fleet trucks get shifted into drive nearly instantly and set out for work. No waiting is required at all


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: Linctex] #4444717
06/29/17 08:28 AM
06/29/17 08:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,471
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,471
Malaysia
You're right on automatics.
I stand corrected. hide

Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: MrTruckDriver] #4444905
06/29/17 11:20 AM
06/29/17 11:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,698
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,698
Southeast
It will not drain out without pulling something in behind it. It it drains through the send line, it has to push the fluid back into the pump or somewhere else upstream. If it drains through the return, it will have to pull fluid with it.

I think once it's together, you won't see any real "draining" happening.


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: trans lubrication on startup [Re: SteveSRT8] #4444907
06/29/17 11:21 AM
06/29/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,698
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,698
Southeast
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^True. I remember the WA580 when it came out was touted as being among the first "dry sump" designs with almost all rotating parts kept out of the fluid. Plus it had real ball and roller bearings where many slushboxes used plain ones.

And as a side note, many mornings our fleet trucks get shifted into drive nearly instantly and set out for work. No waiting is required at all


I had a jeep with that NAG1/580. it was a wonderful trans. One of the best things about that vehicle.


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
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