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Full ATF change for Honda Civic #4443533
06/28/17 08:25 AM
06/28/17 08:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline OP
Coprolite  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
This thread on 8th Gen Civic forum claims to be safe as the warning against Honda flushes is directed towards pump assisted flushing. I would like you guys to weigh in. The concept is to open up the return line and fill in the proper amount via the dipstick as you drain from the return line. The hazard is obviously that draining too much before you fill and things get dicey...

If one is careful, is this a valid practice or are there other failure modalities not considered by the procedure?

8thCivic No pump full ATF change in one go.

IF I go this route, fluid choice is up for grabs. If I do conventional drain fill, I will likely go DW-1 out of the hope that if this were an issue for the other millions of Honda users, it would be in the news..."OEM fluid killed my transmission!"

Last edited by Coprolite; 06/28/17 08:27 AM.
Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443537
06/28/17 08:29 AM
06/28/17 08:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
MarcS Offline
MarcS  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
What's wrong with the procedure in the factory service manual?

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443540
06/28/17 08:33 AM
06/28/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,398
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,398
Storrs, Connecticut
Just do a drain and fill. 3 quarts out, 3 quarts in. Use ONLY Honda DW-1 fluid. Doesn't get much simpler than that. You could do a few drain and fills after driving around for a bit if you want to get the most fluid exchanged. I've been doing this procedure every 30k miles on many Hondas with good results.

Sister's 2005 Civic - 220k miles
Sister's 2003 Acura 3.2TL - 120k miles
Mom's 2011 Fit - 70k miles

Friend's 2006 Civic - 215k miles
Friend's 2008 Civic - 150k miles

All shift perfect.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (180k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (33k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443558
06/28/17 09:01 AM
06/28/17 09:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,471
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,471
The Old North State
I believe and in my observation the Honda warning against pump assisted "flushing" was/is the concern about extra cleaning chemicals being added to some "flush" procedures in the past with the use of those machines. Otherwise I believe they are safe.

I you want to do a cooler return line 'exchange/flush' as linked, go for it. IME with two Hondas, d&f's every 25-35k miles gets the job done. And since Z1 discontinued, I've used ML on a 7th gen Civic, and 3.0L Accord, now 150k+ miles using it as described between the two. That said, if DW1 makes feel better use it.

There's an older 10 Minute cooler line exchange youtube using a Honda, that's been referenced often here too for the procedure.


Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443561
06/28/17 09:03 AM
06/28/17 09:03 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,497
Indiana
Phishin Offline
Phishin  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,497
Indiana
My Honda dealer uses a BG "Power" Flush. The word "Power" is ridiculous. I went and look at the machine. It sucks ATF out, and as the old ATF fill a compartment in the containing, it pushes fresh ATF into the car. There's no "Power" flush being done. I've had this service done twice on my 2010 Accord.

I also "freshen" up my ATF on occasion by using a Mity Van. You can suck out 1.5 quarts of ATF if stick to the suction tube all the way to the bottom of the housing using the ATF dipstick. I remove 1.5 quarts, add 1.5 of fresh fluid, and then drive around for 15 minutes. I do this 3 times and end up changing out 4.5 quarts. Not bad. I usually do it on Saturday's or Sunday's where I'm working around the house and running errands. Every time I run to the hardware store or something, I come back and do the 1.5 quart swap.

It keeps my ATF minty fresh!!!

I only use Honda DW-1 and keep about 10-12 ounces of Lubegard Red ATF additive on board as well.


2018 Chevy Silerado 3500HD 6.0L Gas: RLI 10w30
2010 Accord-LX K24: VSP 0w20/MaxLife 10w30 + LG BioTech HD
2014 CR-V LX K24: M1 0w30
Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443563
06/28/17 09:06 AM
06/28/17 09:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
MarcS Offline
MarcS  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
Here's the procedure i just used on my infiniti: Drain, fill, idle for 3 minutes. Repeat 3 times. On the last draining cycle, shift through all the gears while stationary then check levels. That should leave a negligible amount of old fluid in there.

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443565
06/28/17 09:08 AM
06/28/17 09:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline OP
Coprolite  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
I am starting out at about 79k on the car, and my original conservative plan was to change the Z-1 to DW-1 via a succession of drain and fills over the summer. As I like to read up on everything before taking action, this is just part of the fun leading up to the implementation. If I could have the effect of all the drain and fills in one short morning, I could wander off to my other fun summer activities that are crowding my schedule.

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443571
06/28/17 09:16 AM
06/28/17 09:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
MarcS Offline
MarcS  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
yeah, just do it in one shot and be done for the next however many tens of thousands of miles your atf is good for. Also, don't hesitate to use valvoline maxlife instead of dealer fluid and save yourself some money.

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443575
06/28/17 09:19 AM
06/28/17 09:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline OP
Coprolite  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Sayjac, thanks for the other leads. It will probably come down to helper vs no helper unless another procedure does a full swap for a single person. If I do it alone, I will go drain and fill and likely with DW-1 under the assumption that Honda took this procedure into account for miscibility and the resulting hybrid fluid behavior. Knowing that others use ML with D/F, this is probably BITOG OCD manifesting.

If I can arrange a helper, I will simply flush through ~two gallons of ML. This would be just over the equivalent of 3 D/F within error. I just wanted to see if there were horror stories associated with a complete change quickly versus the gradual change over thousands of miles that most D/F practitioners enjoy.

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443584
06/28/17 09:27 AM
06/28/17 09:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
MarcS Offline
MarcS  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
The amount of old fluid left after a 3x d/f is negligible and ML is compatible with said oem fluids regardless. I know it's hard to tell this to people here, but don't overthink it.

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443590
06/28/17 09:30 AM
06/28/17 09:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,643
Cincinnati
Chris Meutsch Online content
Chris Meutsch  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,643
Cincinnati
Do a drain and fill every other year, or every 30k, with DW-1. It's what I do. 2001 Civic made it 227k perfectly before sold.
2005 CR-V has 247k currently, shifts perfectly.
2008 Pilot has 93k, shifts perfectly, if not sloppily (but that's normal for this vehicle it turns out).


2005 Honda CR-V EX, 263k
Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: Coprolite] #4443604
06/28/17 09:43 AM
06/28/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
Coprolite Offline OP
Coprolite  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,224
Houston, TX
The fluid decision is on another thread. The price for 8 qts of DW-1 is $45.83 delivered and cheaper per quart if I get another D/F for next time. The current ML promotion comes to $38.95 picked up.

I need to convince my helper that she wants to spend another fun filled morning working on a car with me...

Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: jeepman3071] #4443611
06/28/17 09:50 AM
06/28/17 09:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,629
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,629
Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Just do a drain and fill. 3 quarts out, 3 quarts in. Use ONLY Honda DW-1 fluid. Doesn't get much simpler than that. You could do a few drain and fills after driving around for a bit if you want to get the most fluid exchanged. I've been doing this procedure every 30k miles on many Hondas with good results.

Sister's 2005 Civic - 220k miles
Sister's 2003 Acura 3.2TL - 120k miles
Mom's 2011 Fit - 70k miles

Friend's 2006 Civic - 215k miles
Friend's 2008 Civic - 150k miles

All shift perfect.


Yep, do simple drain and refills with Honda ATF every 30-40K miles, also clean magnetic drain plug.

I wish Honda automatic transmissions had a screw on oil filter similar to Subarus.


Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: MarcS] #4443660
06/28/17 10:37 AM
06/28/17 10:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,903
Northern Kentucky
901Memphis Offline
901Memphis  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,903
Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: MarcS
Here's the procedure i just used on my infiniti: Drain, fill, idle for 3 minutes. Repeat 3 times. On the last draining cycle, shift through all the gears while stationary then check levels. That should leave a negligible amount of old fluid in there.


I don't think idling will circulate enough fluid to mix the new and old. I've done a similar thing but in between each drain I drove it hard up and down the highway which was about 8 miles


2012 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4T - 50k
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
Re: Full ATF change for Honda Civic [Re: 901Memphis] #4443691
06/28/17 11:03 AM
06/28/17 11:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
MarcS Offline
MarcS  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
PA
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: MarcS
Here's the procedure i just used on my infiniti: Drain, fill, idle for 3 minutes. Repeat 3 times. On the last draining cycle, shift through all the gears while stationary then check levels. That should leave a negligible amount of old fluid in there.


I don't think idling will circulate enough fluid to mix the new and old. I've done a similar thing but in between each drain I drove it hard up and down the highway which was about 8 miles


Circulates just fine at idle. Your transmission has an oil pump just like the engine does and it doesn't need to be in motion to circulate. driving in between drains just means jacking up your car multiple times.

Last edited by MarcS; 06/28/17 11:05 AM.

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