Rotella T15W40 22K on the oil (making metal)

[A310]

Well not happy with these results at all, Blackstone is recommending I drop the oil as iron is now at 95 ppm. Most of the miles are city/highway and towing in the west coastal mountains. As a comparison my sister's 6BT has very similar miles on the oil and is 12 ppm (no towing). I've got no signs of trouble at all from the engine, no smoke, blow-by is low and fuel economy is excellent. What do you guys think, dump the oil or keep using? I'm inclined to dump it, change the full and add 15 quarts of Amsoil AME 15W40 and see if that helps the wear numbers.
Here's the report:

 

[oliveoil]

From using .5-1qt to 6. There is a problem starting to happen. It's not the oils fault.

 

[Ethan1]

At what point in your OCI did it start using oil? That's probably when you should change it. I've had a passenger car that would use zero oil, hit 7k on the OCI, and then start to use a little bit.

 

[mitsuman47]

Originally Posted By: A310
Well not happy with these results at all, Blackstone is recommending I drop the oil as iron is now at 95 ppm. Most of the miles are city/highway and towing in the west coastal mountains. As a comparison my sister's 6BT has very similar miles on the oil and is 12 ppm (no towing). I've got no signs of trouble at all from the engine, no smoke, blow-by is low and fuel economy is excellent. What do you guys think, dump the oil or keep using? I'm inclined to dump it, change the full and add 15 quarts of Amsoil AME 15W40 and see if that helps the wear numbers.
Here's the report:






What oil was used for the previous OCIs?

Edit: interesting that back at 248,000km it used 5qts make up oil in 8,000km. Then went down to none over 17,000km. Now up to 6qt in 35,000km. Are those numbers correct?

 

[NStuart]

I ran Rotella T6 for 40000 miles in my Detroit and was it 75 PPM iron, that was before I started playing around with bypass filters I did swap the full flow filters at least once which added 2 Fresh gallons of oil, I have a bypass on three trucks only 2 of them have regular sampling done right now. My one suggestion would be to possibly use oil to flush out that high mileage oil (shot oci), just a thought because one truck had more frequent oil changes than the other and my samples and tbn reflect that. My 200,000 Mile motor versus my 1 million mile motor the samples look better on the 1 million mile motor. The 200,000 Mile motor oil change interval with 40K prior to the bypass install and regular sampling the 1 million mile motor had a 15000 mile change and an oil pan dump and cleaning just prior to the bypass install. I think the residual oil from the 40K change is causing me to see a 5.2 TBN in that motor versus a 5.8 in the other motor at the same mileage sample. Just some interesting thoughts so far I'm very happy with the Shaeffer 9000 and fuel mileage I'm receiving from it

 

[A310]

Sorry guys I forgot to mentioned that this truck has an Amsoil Dual Gard and a Frantz in series after the Dual Gard. The 6 quarts of oil are used from 4 toilet paper rolls changed, a full flow filter changed, and the oil burned is around 2-3 quarts burned.

 

[mitsuman47]

Originally Posted By: A310
Sorry guys I forgot to mentioned that this truck has an Amsoil Dual Gard and a Frantz in series after the Dual Gard. The 6 quarts of oil are used from 4 toilet paper rolls changed, a full flow filter changed, and the oil burned is around 2-3 quarts burned.


Is this the same filter setup as previous OCIs?

 

[A310]

Originally Posted By: mitsuman47
Originally Posted By: A310
Sorry guys I forgot to mentioned that this truck has an Amsoil Dual Gard and a Frantz in series after the Dual Gard. The 6 quarts of oil are used from 4 toilet paper rolls changed, a full flow filter changed, and the oil burned is around 2-3 quarts burned.


Is this the same filter setup as previous OCIs?


Yes, with the exception of adding the Frantz unit, this was added 12000 miles ago.

 

[NStuart]

I'd be interested to see a particle analysis on that, Blackstone told me it's only $15 if the oil is clear enough to do so

 

[A310]

Originally Posted By: NStuart
I'd be interested to see a particle analysis on that, Blackstone told me it's only $15 if the oil is clear enough to do so


Well I tried that with the previous sample and they could not read it, have to be able to see through the oil.

 

[mitsuman47]

Originally Posted By: A310
Originally Posted By: mitsuman47
Originally Posted By: A310
Sorry guys I forgot to mentioned that this truck has an Amsoil Dual Gard and a Frantz in series after the Dual Gard. The 6 quarts of oil are used from 4 toilet paper rolls changed, a full flow filter changed, and the oil burned is around 2-3 quarts burned.


Is this the same filter setup as previous OCIs?


Yes, with the exception of adding the Frantz unit, this was added 12000 miles ago.


I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but is there any way to bypass your frantz filter setup for the next change?

So, bypass your bypass filter....

I'm just trying to cancel out any obvious variables that may have changed AND affected your UOAs before we blame the oil.

 

[Linctex]

35,600 miles or kilometers on the oil?

 

[Killer223]

oils cheap, engines are not.

 

[A310]

Thanks for the responses guys, I've decided to change filters and oil and get another sample in 5000 miles.

 

[CT8]

Something is failing.

 

[A310]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Something is failing.


True, it's not uncommon for the 6.4 Powerstroke to make metal, but not at this rate. In comparison my Cummins 5.9 with 20,000 miles on the same oil is showing iron wear at 12 ppm. I'm changing this oil and will run a another analysis in 10,000 miles and check wear rates again. I was planning on an engine swap next summer anyway, so I just need it to hold together for another 20000-30000 miles. I sure love the power of the 6.4, but have to swap it out for something more dependable.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted By: A310
Originally Posted By: CT8
Something is failing.


True, it's not uncommon for the 6.4 Powerstroke to make metal, but not at this rate. In comparison my Cummins 5.9 with 20,000 miles on the same oil is showing iron wear at 12 ppm. I'm changing this oil and will run a another analysis in 10,000 miles and check wear rates again. I was planning on an engine swap next summer anyway, so I just need it to hold together for another 20000-30000 miles. I sure love the power of the 6.4, but have to swap it out for something more dependable.


What are you planning to replace your 6.4 with?

 

[A310]

Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
Originally Posted By: A310
Originally Posted By: CT8
Something is failing.


True, it's not uncommon for the 6.4 Powerstroke to make metal, but not at this rate. In comparison my Cummins 5.9 with 20,000 miles on the same oil is showing iron wear at 12 ppm. I'm changing this oil and will run a another analysis in 10,000 miles and check wear rates again. I was planning on an engine swap next summer anyway, so I just need it to hold together for another 20000-30000 miles. I sure love the power of the 6.4, but have to swap it out for something more dependable.


What are you planning to replace your 6.4 with?


A Detroit 4-53T, with an allison 1000, or ZF6 (long story). Have been planning to put this engine in a truck for a long time, so I'm buying a salvaged F250 with a spare 6.4 Powerstroke for my truck and transplanting the Detroit into the salvaged truck. When it's all finished I'll sell my truck with the 6.4 and the spare 6.4 and keep the Detroit powered truck. I love the 6.4's power, but International cheaped out on too many things in this engine to make it a long term engine choice. I can rebuild it with better components, but way too much money for my tastes.

 

[A310]

I just dumped out 19 quarts of Rotella T 15W40 and added 19 quarts of Amsoil Signature 15W40, full flow filter changed as well as a Frantz roll changed. Just an experiment to see if the Amsoil product is any better than my favorite Shell Rotella T. Stay tuned

Testing Photobuckets after the 3rd party picture sharing.:

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted By: A310
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
Originally Posted By: A310
Originally Posted By: CT8
Something is failing.


True, it's not uncommon for the 6.4 Powerstroke to make metal, but not at this rate. In comparison my Cummins 5.9 with 20,000 miles on the same oil is showing iron wear at 12 ppm. I'm changing this oil and will run a another analysis in 10,000 miles and check wear rates again. I was planning on an engine swap next summer anyway, so I just need it to hold together for another 20000-30000 miles. I sure love the power of the 6.4, but have to swap it out for something more dependable.


What are you planning to replace your 6.4 with?


A Detroit 4-53T, with an allison 1000, or ZF6 (long story). Have been planning to put this engine in a truck for a long time, so I'm buying a salvaged F250 with a spare 6.4 Powerstroke for my truck and transplanting the Detroit into the salvaged truck. When it's all finished I'll sell my truck with the 6.4 and the spare 6.4 and keep the Detroit powered truck. I love the 6.4's power, but International cheaped out on too many things in this engine to make it a long term engine choice. I can rebuild it with better components, but way too much money for my tastes.


I also have a Detroit 4-53T that I want to put into a truck really really badly. Short block was never touched, has a very low mileage genuine Detroit reliabuilt top end on it. I have a set of 9A90 injectors for mine. I'm torn on using green liner kits or silver liner kits, if I go silver I'd need different connecting rods and different a camshaft so most likely I'll re use my parts and just go with standard green cylinder kits. My vote is for the A1000 transmission the ZF6 is clunky shifting IMHO and the added cushion of the converter ads some flexibility to the narrow power band of the Detroit. Coming from a 6.4 I would think that a 6v53T would be more comparable in power output, even with big injectors (and the shorter lifespan that accompanies them) the 4-53T can't match even a stock rated injector in a 6v53T. I'm excited to see your project!