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Oil catch can opinions #4442022
06/26/17 01:40 PM
06/26/17 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 184
Michigan
jkasch Offline OP
jkasch  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 184
Michigan
I've read endless debate on the merits or lack thereof on catch cans. Most of the arguments run from "total waste of money" to "can't hurt" to "beneficial".

Could a small amount of oil vapor in an intake ever be a good thing and intentional by design? (Especially in a boosted engine.)

Thanks for your thoughts.

Last edited by wwillson; 06/26/17 08:27 PM. Reason: subject clarification
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442029
06/26/17 01:44 PM
06/26/17 01:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: jkasch

Could a small amount of oil vapor in an intake ever be a good thing?


Maybe, if naturally aspirated


Originally Posted By: jkasch
(Especially in a boosted engine.)


NEVER!!!!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442030
06/26/17 01:45 PM
06/26/17 01:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: jkasch

Could a small amount of oil vapor in an intake ever be a good thing(Especially in a boosted engine.)


You especially want to keep oil vapor out of the intake under boost.

Part-throttle cruise is/would be fine.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442039
06/26/17 01:52 PM
06/26/17 01:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 517
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 517
E. Tennessee
IMHO: I don't think any amount of oil vapor via the PCV system into the intake tract is a good thing. Many PCV systems have intricate "condensation" networks in them to help keep as much actual mist out of the intake tract (the last leg of the PCV system basically). In our GDI engines these days, since there is not injected fuel washing the intake valves like there in an the normal port injected engines, any oil mist gets gunked up on the intake valves as well as the intake tract (or part of it at least, depending on engine design). I have OCC on my turbo motor to help reduce this. YMMV.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (76K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (75K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442062
06/26/17 02:20 PM
06/26/17 02:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,013
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,013
Buffalo, NY
It's not the best thing in any application, but those pesky crankcase vapors have to go somewhere that's not into the air or onto the ground.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442063
06/26/17 02:23 PM
06/26/17 02:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Originally Posted By: jkasch
I've read endless debate on the merits or lack thereof on catch cans. Most of the arguments run from "total waste of money" to "can't hurt" to "beneficial".

Could a small amount of oil vapor in an intake ever be a good thing and intentional by design? (Especially in a boosted engine.)

Thanks for your thoughts.

Catch cans are nice to have. Oil vapor is always horrific to engine and sensor operation, because it leaves deposits and ends up causing knock to occur. Manufacturers don't use catch cans for environmental law reasons.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442072
06/26/17 02:34 PM
06/26/17 02:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 234
NorCal
Seventh Offline
Seventh  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 234
NorCal
I don't like catch cans that have to be emptied periodically.

On my WRX I have a Crawford air/oil separator, version 2 to be exact.

It's a closed loop system that has lots of internal baffling, the liquid oil drains back to the pan, the remaining air is routed back to the inlet. The version 2 also has coolant routed through it to burn off any moisture that may accumulate inside.

Car burns absolutely zero oil since I installed it several years ago, and there is never a trace of oil in the intake (I've had the intercooler off a couple times since then)

They just came out with version 3, which they say is "ca smog legal," but I didn't get any grief about my version 2 a few months ago when I had to get emissions test done

Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442075
06/26/17 02:39 PM
06/26/17 02:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,569
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,569
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I figure if they were worth a P hole in the snow the manufacturer would put them on as OE.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: Trav] #4442080
06/26/17 02:46 PM
06/26/17 02:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
L_Sludger Offline
L_Sludger  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,947
Ohio
Originally Posted By: Trav
I figure if they were worth a P hole in the snow the manufacturer would put them on as OE.
When everything is under warranty, engines don't usually have big oil vapor issues.


too many cars and oil combinations to list in 150 characters or less
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: Trav] #4442091
06/26/17 03:09 PM
06/26/17 03:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,415
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,415
PA
Originally Posted By: Trav
I figure if they were worth a P hole in the snow the manufacturer would put them on as OE.

Well oil separators are fairly common, no? My old E36 M3 had one. The NA V8 RS4 had a triple one, IIRC...


2008 BMW M3
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442101
06/26/17 03:27 PM
06/26/17 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,251
PV Az
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,251
PV Az
I DIY'd a catch can for this GDI Ecotec3 in the '16 Chevy to see what it might catch. In 2000 miles it caught about 2 tablespoons of whatever oil the dealer put in. Bought the truck with 2000 miles, catch can at 3000, changed oil to PPP 5w-30 @ 5000 and emptied the can. Not unhappy that I kept that spooge out of the intake and off the valve stems.


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: d00df00d] #4442117
06/26/17 03:49 PM
06/26/17 03:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,569
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,569
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Trav
I figure if they were worth a P hole in the snow the manufacturer would put them on as OE.

Well oil separators are fairly common, no? My old E36 M3 had one. The NA V8 RS4 had a triple one, IIRC...


Sure they do but they usually don't use a garden variety PCV valve on those type systems either.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442164
06/26/17 04:58 PM
06/26/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,176
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,176
US-WA
All the settled oil vapor I have seen on intake manifold was like shoe glue. My jeep for example had a 1/4" thick layer of th stuff that took hours to get rid of with all kinds of solvents and brushes. Fresh oil may be ok from port injectors such as Lucas ucl stuff, but burned up oil, no.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 103K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 21K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 35k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442169
06/26/17 05:06 PM
06/26/17 05:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,362
Somewhere
itguy08 Offline
itguy08  Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,362
Somewhere
I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing but is normal on all engines.

Two telling things about cans....

1. About 3 years ago there was a spirited debate on one of the F150 Forums with a famous can vendor. Claimed the Ecoboost's PCV system was "defective" and needed his can as it was the only one that would "fix the issues" and prevent gunk on the valves. Claimed he had one on his F150 from day one. When asked for pictures of HIS valves he never could get one. He also claimed more HP as the engine aged. When asked for dyno runs there were none.

2. The worst GDI engine guys (VW/Audi) played with cans and guess what? They still got no deposits.

I don't worry about the gunk in there. Even with all that stuff your engine will lead a long and productive life. They may be beneficial in certain applications (Racing, high boost, etc) but for stock or mild tunes it's a waste of money.

Re: Oil catch can opinions [Re: jkasch] #4442233
06/26/17 06:14 PM
06/26/17 06:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 184
Michigan
jkasch Offline OP
jkasch  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 184
Michigan
Appreciate all the comments. A couple of members on another forum were trying to make the case that a bit of oil vapor could be a good thing. I'm not buying it.

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