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UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) #4440564
06/24/17 07:58 PM
06/24/17 07:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline OP
paulri  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
Does anyone here have UOAs that show multiple reports--at least one from a thicker oil, and at least one from a thinner (0w20 or 5w20) oil? I'd love to compare how both oils did in the same engine.

Yes, there are plenty of stellar reports from cars that run thick or thin, but just doing one type doesn't indicate what the results would have been had another type of oil.

So are there any UOAs that show (most likely) a 5w30, and one of the 20 weight oils? I have done plenty of clicking through these forum pages, but there aren't too many, and it is very time consuming to go through each one.


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440569
06/24/17 08:00 PM
06/24/17 08:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,413
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,413
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Of course, you do realize that you can't compare performance that way.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440570
06/24/17 08:02 PM
06/24/17 08:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline OP
paulri  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
Why not?


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440572
06/24/17 08:03 PM
06/24/17 08:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
What are you looking to compare? UOA are typically used to spot something abnormal that different than the trend.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440573
06/24/17 08:06 PM
06/24/17 08:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline OP
paulri  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
I'm looking to compare engine wear, through seeing how high the wear metals are. I realize that folks who test oil and additive packages will measure the dimensions of wear scars, but I can't seem to find any of that equipment in my garage eek so I was thinking a UOA would have to do.

Last edited by paulri; 06/24/17 08:10 PM.

2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440583
06/24/17 08:14 PM
06/24/17 08:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: paulri
I'm looking to compare engine wear, through seeing how high the wear metals are. I realize that folks who test oil and additive packages will measure the dimensions of wear scars, but I can't seem to find any of that equipment in my garage eek so I was thinking a UOA would have to do.


Actually in the tests I have read about, they pull out the cam and crank weigh them to detect wear.

I think you will not learn much as your test will not be very scientific.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440603
06/24/17 08:31 PM
06/24/17 08:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,413
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,413
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: paulri
Why not?

There are a lot of reasons. For one, the statistical sample size is way too small. Secondly, metal numbers don't correspond to wear. And, there is a lot more. Read Doug Hillary's article here for more insight.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440608
06/24/17 08:35 PM
06/24/17 08:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,187
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,187
Ontario, Canada


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440612
06/24/17 08:36 PM
06/24/17 08:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,450
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,450
NY
Originally Posted By: paulri
Does anyone here have UOAs that show multiple reports--at least one from a thicker oil, and at least one from a thinner (0w20 or 5w20) oil? I'd love to compare how both oils did in the same engine.

Yes, there are plenty of stellar reports from cars that run thick or thin, but just doing one type doesn't indicate what the results would have been had another type of oil.

So are there any UOAs that show (most likely) a 5w30, and one of the 20 weight oils? I have done plenty of clicking through these forum pages, but there aren't too many, and it is very time consuming to go through each one.


In order to get the results you want conditions would have to be EXACTLY the same to base an accurate comparison. Then repeat it several times. Good luck finding two vehicles, or any vehicles driven under the exact same conditions for your comparison. If you want to gauge engine wear you'd have to do engine tear downs, UOA's aren't going to shed much light for you in that department.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: Garak] #4440614
06/24/17 08:40 PM
06/24/17 08:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,040
Virginia
bbhero Online content
bbhero  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,040
Virginia
There is someone else on here who needs to understand this concept of UOAs not being an indicator of wear as well.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440620
06/24/17 08:47 PM
06/24/17 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline OP
paulri  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
From Doug's article:

Quote:
it is easy to assume that by carrying out a UOA you will be able to determine how quickly the engine is wearing out. As well, if you change lubricant Brands you will be able to compare the wear metal uptake results and then make a balanced best lubricant choice to make your engine last longer.
Sadly that logic is seriously flawed....

During the last 50 or so years I have carried out hundreds of UOAs on all sorts of engine configurations and on transmissions, gearboxes and differentials. These were done in consort with four Major Oil Companies (Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Castrol, Chevron-Caltex), my Employers, my Customers and on my own Fleet and other vehicles. Not once were they ever used to discriminate one lubricant from another on the grounds of wear metal uptake!


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: demarpaint] #4440622
06/24/17 08:48 PM
06/24/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline OP
paulri  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
What I had originally in mind was one car that had (presumably) the same driving conditions, showing results for both types of oil.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

In order to get the results you want conditions would have to be EXACTLY the same to base an accurate comparison. Then repeat it several times. Good luck finding two vehicles, or any vehicles driven under the exact same conditions for your comparison. If you want to gauge engine wear you'd have to do engine tear downs, UOA's aren't going to shed much light for you in that department.



2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440639
06/24/17 09:08 PM
06/24/17 09:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
East Texas
mitsuman47 Offline
mitsuman47  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
East Texas
OP, one thing to remember when it comes to UOAs is that the range in particle size that they test is quite narrow.

Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440657
06/24/17 09:28 PM
06/24/17 09:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,026
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,026
OH
There was a recent thread entitled portentously, or maybe pretentiously, "Final Verdict: Thick or Thin".
This was a thread that ran to epic length that brought in posts from just about everybody here who posts much at all including a bunch of folks who know a whole lot more than I ever will. I'm surprised you missed it.
In this thread, the OP did one shortish run of M1 0-40 and another similar run on TGMO 0W-20.
The vehicle involved was an elderly very high miles Toyota with what sounded from the OP's description like a head gasket leak.
The OP UOAed the runs of each oil and decided that based upon the UOA results, a final conclusion had been handed down that wear was lower with a lower viscosity oil.
It need not be said that many here, including me jumped all over his faulty reasoning and the meaninglessness of the results he saw, but the OP would not be swayed.
In short, one run of any oil tells you exactly nothing.
A solid year with multiple UOAs on oil A followed by the same with oil B might indicate some difference of significance, and I am of the school of thought that the wear metals found in UOAs are a good surrogate for actual wear.
Problem is that with a healthy engine driven under typical conditions, you won't see any statistically significant difference in wear metals as measured in a UOA with any two oils of any viscosities. In fact you won't see much in the way of wear metals at all, so there isn't much basis for drawing any conclusions.


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri] #4440658
06/24/17 09:29 PM
06/24/17 09:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
TheKracken Offline
TheKracken  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 515
Fort Worth TX
I like the 0w20 in my sienna.... look at my sig


2011 Prius 96k miles RLI 5w20
97 Toy T100 4x4: amsoil 0w20 242k Miles
04 Toy Sienna awd: Pennzoil 0w20 281k Miles
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