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#4440564 - 06/24/17 07:58 PM UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20)
paulri Online   content


Registered: 08/14/15
Posts: 755
Loc: CA, USA
Does anyone here have UOAs that show multiple reports--at least one from a thicker oil, and at least one from a thinner (0w20 or 5w20) oil? I'd love to compare how both oils did in the same engine.

Yes, there are plenty of stellar reports from cars that run thick or thin, but just doing one type doesn't indicate what the results would have been had another type of oil.

So are there any UOAs that show (most likely) a 5w30, and one of the 20 weight oils? I have done plenty of clicking through these forum pages, but there aren't too many, and it is very time consuming to go through each one.
_________________________
2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 148,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 197,000 miles

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#4440569 - 06/24/17 08:00 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24586
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Of course, you do realize that you can't compare performance that way.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4440570 - 06/24/17 08:02 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
paulri Online   content


Registered: 08/14/15
Posts: 755
Loc: CA, USA
Why not?
_________________________
2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 148,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 197,000 miles

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#4440572 - 06/24/17 08:03 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
Donald Online   content


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20458
Loc: Upstate NY
What are you looking to compare? UOA are typically used to spot something abnormal that different than the trend.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)


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#4440573 - 06/24/17 08:06 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
paulri Online   content


Registered: 08/14/15
Posts: 755
Loc: CA, USA
I'm looking to compare engine wear, through seeing how high the wear metals are. I realize that folks who test oil and additive packages will measure the dimensions of wear scars, but I can't seem to find any of that equipment in my garage eek so I was thinking a UOA would have to do.


Edited by paulri (06/24/17 08:10 PM)
_________________________
2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 148,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 197,000 miles

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#4440583 - 06/24/17 08:14 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
Donald Online   content


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20458
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: paulri
I'm looking to compare engine wear, through seeing how high the wear metals are. I realize that folks who test oil and additive packages will measure the dimensions of wear scars, but I can't seem to find any of that equipment in my garage eek so I was thinking a UOA would have to do.


Actually in the tests I have read about, they pull out the cam and crank weigh them to detect wear.

I think you will not learn much as your test will not be very scientific.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)


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#4440603 - 06/24/17 08:31 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24586
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: paulri
Why not?

There are a lot of reasons. For one, the statistical sample size is way too small. Secondly, metal numbers don't correspond to wear. And, there is a lot more. Read Doug Hillary's article here for more insight.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4440608 - 06/24/17 08:35 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
_________________________
2016 Durango Limited
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT

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#4440612 - 06/24/17 08:36 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29774
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: paulri
Does anyone here have UOAs that show multiple reports--at least one from a thicker oil, and at least one from a thinner (0w20 or 5w20) oil? I'd love to compare how both oils did in the same engine.

Yes, there are plenty of stellar reports from cars that run thick or thin, but just doing one type doesn't indicate what the results would have been had another type of oil.

So are there any UOAs that show (most likely) a 5w30, and one of the 20 weight oils? I have done plenty of clicking through these forum pages, but there aren't too many, and it is very time consuming to go through each one.


In order to get the results you want conditions would have to be EXACTLY the same to base an accurate comparison. Then repeat it several times. Good luck finding two vehicles, or any vehicles driven under the exact same conditions for your comparison. If you want to gauge engine wear you'd have to do engine tear downs, UOA's aren't going to shed much light for you in that department.
_________________________
God Bless Our Troops


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#4440614 - 06/24/17 08:40 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: Garak]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
There is someone else on here who needs to understand this concept of UOAs not being an indicator of wear as well.
_________________________
Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30 Federated Auto 4612ex
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

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#4440620 - 06/24/17 08:47 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
paulri Online   content


Registered: 08/14/15
Posts: 755
Loc: CA, USA
From Doug's article:

Quote:
it is easy to assume that by carrying out a UOA you will be able to determine how quickly the engine is wearing out. As well, if you change lubricant Brands you will be able to compare the wear metal uptake results and then make a balanced best lubricant choice to make your engine last longer.
Sadly that logic is seriously flawed....

During the last 50 or so years I have carried out hundreds of UOAs on all sorts of engine configurations and on transmissions, gearboxes and differentials. These were done in consort with four Major Oil Companies (Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Castrol, Chevron-Caltex), my Employers, my Customers and on my own Fleet and other vehicles. Not once were they ever used to discriminate one lubricant from another on the grounds of wear metal uptake!
_________________________
2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 148,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 197,000 miles

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#4440622 - 06/24/17 08:48 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: demarpaint]
paulri Online   content


Registered: 08/14/15
Posts: 755
Loc: CA, USA
What I had originally in mind was one car that had (presumably) the same driving conditions, showing results for both types of oil.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

In order to get the results you want conditions would have to be EXACTLY the same to base an accurate comparison. Then repeat it several times. Good luck finding two vehicles, or any vehicles driven under the exact same conditions for your comparison. If you want to gauge engine wear you'd have to do engine tear downs, UOA's aren't going to shed much light for you in that department.

_________________________
2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 148,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 197,000 miles

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#4440639 - 06/24/17 09:08 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
mitsuman47 Offline


Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 271
Loc: East Texas
OP, one thing to remember when it comes to UOAs is that the range in particle size that they test is quite narrow.

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#4440657 - 06/24/17 09:28 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15699
Loc: OH
There was a recent thread entitled portentously, or maybe pretentiously, "Final Verdict: Thick or Thin".
This was a thread that ran to epic length that brought in posts from just about everybody here who posts much at all including a bunch of folks who know a whole lot more than I ever will. I'm surprised you missed it.
In this thread, the OP did one shortish run of M1 0-40 and another similar run on TGMO 0W-20.
The vehicle involved was an elderly very high miles Toyota with what sounded from the OP's description like a head gasket leak.
The OP UOAed the runs of each oil and decided that based upon the UOA results, a final conclusion had been handed down that wear was lower with a lower viscosity oil.
It need not be said that many here, including me jumped all over his faulty reasoning and the meaninglessness of the results he saw, but the OP would not be swayed.
In short, one run of any oil tells you exactly nothing.
A solid year with multiple UOAs on oil A followed by the same with oil B might indicate some difference of significance, and I am of the school of thought that the wear metals found in UOAs are a good surrogate for actual wear.
Problem is that with a healthy engine driven under typical conditions, you won't see any statistically significant difference in wear metals as measured in a UOA with any two oils of any viscosities. In fact you won't see much in the way of wear metals at all, so there isn't much basis for drawing any conclusions.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
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#4440658 - 06/24/17 09:29 PM Re: UOAs of same car, but with thick and thin (xw-20) [Re: paulri]
TheKracken Offline


Registered: 04/18/17
Posts: 515
Loc: Fort Worth TX
I like the 0w20 in my sienna.... look at my sig
_________________________
2011 Prius 96k miles RLI 5w20
97 Toy T100 4x4: amsoil 0w20 242k Miles
04 Toy Sienna awd: Pennzoil 0w20 281k Miles

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