Recent Topics
AAP 25% Off
by Egg_Head
06/22/18 06:03 AM
GM Ecotec 2.4 - Cracked Exhaust Manifold
by The Critic
06/22/18 05:05 AM
Half Price - Shell Helix HX7, Castrol Edge and GTX
by SR5
06/22/18 03:59 AM
Why hang your bicycle from the ceiling?
by mjoekingz28
06/22/18 03:47 AM
Oil For High Sustained RPM on BMW S52
by ZEK
06/21/18 10:41 PM
Chevy brought the blazer back
by WiskyBadger
06/21/18 10:07 PM
LC20 and uses in modern motor oil
by synman
06/21/18 10:01 PM
Full Synthetic CJ-4 or > 5W-30 or 10W-30
by LeTempt
06/21/18 09:57 PM
2018 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel
by OVERKILL
06/21/18 08:37 PM
Fram SureGrip coating
by mobilaltima
06/21/18 08:24 PM
Manual transmissioned electric car
by mjoekingz28
06/21/18 06:45 PM
1991 Toyota Previa New JDM engine Redline
by Kurtatron
06/21/18 06:26 PM
8 yr old channeling John Bonham
by Toy4x4
06/21/18 06:02 PM
Traveller nlgi 2
by Spitter
06/21/18 05:33 PM
Upgrading the Kohler 7000 series air cleaner
by Patrick0525
06/21/18 05:08 PM
Any nano reefers here?
by RichardS
06/21/18 05:04 PM
ARC remanufactured Power Steering Pump
by Pajero
06/21/18 04:58 PM
John Deere "Easy Change" System gimmick
by SnowmanCO
06/21/18 04:55 PM
Oz Planstic Bag Bans - not so green.
by Shannow
06/21/18 04:31 PM
help me choose...
by chaindrive
06/21/18 04:07 PM
Newest Members
Fatbrowndog0822, DRNJR, ZEK, Dudewayne, kmdz
65294 Registered Users
Who's Online
71 registered (aquariuscsm, 4WD, BoiseRob, brages, 01rangerxl, BeerCan, 6 invisible), 1158 Guests and 30 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65294 Members
67 Forums
285753 Topics
4769002 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#4440126 - 06/24/17 08:16 AM shell 10w30 noack 12%
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
How precise are these noack tests done by pqia and in general?

12% seems high for shell 10w30 and moreover pyb 10w30 had a noack of around 4.3%. Both made by shell.

For minimizing oil consumption how can one trust any weight including sae 30 or 20w50 until you see a specific value for noack !!!!!


Edited by merconvvv (06/24/17 08:18 AM)
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
#4440137 - 06/24/17 08:35 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
BigD1 Offline


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 2575
Loc: NC
That PYB NOACK was when Shell was dumping excess GTL.
_________________________
1992 Toyota Pickup--Havoline HM 10W-30--Motorcraft FL-910S

Top
#4440139 - 06/24/17 08:36 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter

Top
#4440145 - 06/24/17 08:45 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2380
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
True, higher NOACK doesn't automatically equate to higher oil consumption.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4440160 - 06/24/17 09:00 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1658
Loc: Crawfordville FL
I would love to know the noack of M1 HM 10w-30
_________________________
2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30

Top
#4440165 - 06/24/17 09:08 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
I would love to know the noack of all oils including m1 10w30
M1 10w30 ep
M1 10w30 hm.

I am boycottimg m1 after 30 years of using their oil till they publish more data especially noack.
Dont really care to know their secret blend.
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
#4440168 - 06/24/17 09:10 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: ARCOgraphite]
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".


Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
#4440175 - 06/24/17 09:21 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
PQIA if you are listening then please first test oils that are actually on shelves at walmart autozone napa etc etc. Most of the brands tested i have never heard of.

Who knows your audience might increase by 10 fold.
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
#4440176 - 06/24/17 09:22 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
SonofJoe Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 1052
Loc: Europe
There isn't a direct correlation between Noack and oil loss and neither would I expect there ever to be one. How can blowing cold air over a cup of oil at 250C for one hour be a fair representation of blowing moderately hot blow-by gas over/through a sump's worth of engine oil at roughly 100C for say 300 hours of engine on time? And that's before you factor in the variation in engine types (big sump vs small sump), engine age (old engines give higher blowby than new ones) and turbos (higher compression boosted engines give more blow-by than n/a engines).

Having said all that, I can put hand on heart and say that in crude terms, oil loss DOES correlate with Noack. You see precisely this on industry standard engine tests like the Peugeot TU5 and the Sequence IIIG (although keep in mind that both tests run the oil at the unrepresentatively high temperature of 150C). Also whilst for any given fixed set of viscometrics, a synthetic oil will give you a lower Noack than a mineral oil (and as a result, less oil loss), a mineral oil and synthetic of equal Noack will roughly give the same level of oil loss.

Noack is a very imperfect test (dating from before WWII!), but it's all we've got and I see no signs of an improved, more predictive test on the horizon. The bottom line is still, if you're genuinely concerned about your engine consuming oil, go with the lowest Noack oil you can get your hands on. Usually this translates to being a heavy, synthetic (preferably PAO), narrow cross-grade with a low level of approval (less DI is good).


Edited by SonofJoe (06/24/17 09:23 AM)

Top
#4440178 - 06/24/17 09:25 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10979
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".


Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
Once the oil thickens . Oil burning will be lessened.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

Top
#4440187 - 06/24/17 09:34 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: CT8]
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".




Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
Once the oil thickens . Oil burning will be lessened.


But plenty of thick 20w50 with high noack.
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
#4440192 - 06/24/17 09:40 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9398
Loc: Upper Midwest
Out of everything that is or isn't published about motor oils, the three parameters that I can't see how they relate to performance of an oil in an ICE are NOACK, flash point and pour point. Sure there are standardized tests but how do the results directly relate to what happens in an engine?
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4440194 - 06/24/17 09:41 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
Valvoline synpower 20w50 has 8% noack. Thats kind of high for 20w50 in my opinion.
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
#4440200 - 06/24/17 09:47 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv]
SonofJoe Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 1052
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".




Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
Once the oil thickens . Oil burning will be lessened.


But plenty of thick 20w50 with high noack.



Not the 20W50s I used to formulate! It's a while ago since I did this but as I recall, 5 - 6% was the norm, and that's with old fashioned Group I and not trying too hard to optimise the oil specifically for Noack.

It's as rare a hens teeth but if you can find it, opt for 20W40 rather than 20W50. It's truly wonderful for passing Noack orientated engine tests. It's also brilliant in diesel engines.


Edited by SonofJoe (06/24/17 09:47 AM)

Top
#4440201 - 06/24/17 09:47 AM Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: kschachn]
merconvvv Offline


Registered: 07/10/16
Posts: 682
Loc: il usa
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Out of everything that is or isn't published about motor oils, the three parameters that I can't see how they relate to performance of an oil in an ICE are NOACK, flash point and pour point. Sure there are standardized tests but how do the results directly relate to what happens in an engine?


Would be interested to know what oil each of your 4 cars get. Do you change oil by season? Do you drive cross country in any of those cars ?
_________________________
1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >