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shell 10w30 noack 12% #4440126
06/24/17 07:16 AM
06/24/17 07:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
How precise are these noack tests done by pqia and in general?

12% seems high for shell 10w30 and moreover pyb 10w30 had a noack of around 4.3%. Both made by shell.

For minimizing oil consumption how can one trust any weight including sae 30 or 20w50 until you see a specific value for noack !!!!!

Last edited by merconvvv; 06/24/17 07:18 AM.

1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440137
06/24/17 07:35 AM
06/24/17 07:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
BigD1 Offline
BigD1  Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,911
NC
That PYB NOACK was when Shell was dumping excess GTL.


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440139
06/24/17 07:36 AM
06/24/17 07:36 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440145
06/24/17 07:45 AM
06/24/17 07:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
True, higher NOACK doesn't automatically equate to higher oil consumption.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440160
06/24/17 08:00 AM
06/24/17 08:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,802
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,802
Crawfordville FL
I would love to know the noack of M1 HM 10w-30


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440165
06/24/17 08:08 AM
06/24/17 08:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
I would love to know the noack of all oils including m1 10w30
M1 10w30 ep
M1 10w30 hm.

I am boycottimg m1 after 30 years of using their oil till they publish more data especially noack.
Dont really care to know their secret blend.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4440168
06/24/17 08:10 AM
06/24/17 08:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".


Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440175
06/24/17 08:21 AM
06/24/17 08:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
PQIA if you are listening then please first test oils that are actually on shelves at walmart autozone napa etc etc. Most of the brands tested i have never heard of.

Who knows your audience might increase by 10 fold.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440176
06/24/17 08:22 AM
06/24/17 08:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
There isn't a direct correlation between Noack and oil loss and neither would I expect there ever to be one. How can blowing cold air over a cup of oil at 250C for one hour be a fair representation of blowing moderately hot blow-by gas over/through a sump's worth of engine oil at roughly 100C for say 300 hours of engine on time? And that's before you factor in the variation in engine types (big sump vs small sump), engine age (old engines give higher blowby than new ones) and turbos (higher compression boosted engines give more blow-by than n/a engines).

Having said all that, I can put hand on heart and say that in crude terms, oil loss DOES correlate with Noack. You see precisely this on industry standard engine tests like the Peugeot TU5 and the Sequence IIIG (although keep in mind that both tests run the oil at the unrepresentatively high temperature of 150C). Also whilst for any given fixed set of viscometrics, a synthetic oil will give you a lower Noack than a mineral oil (and as a result, less oil loss), a mineral oil and synthetic of equal Noack will roughly give the same level of oil loss.

Noack is a very imperfect test (dating from before WWII!), but it's all we've got and I see no signs of an improved, more predictive test on the horizon. The bottom line is still, if you're genuinely concerned about your engine consuming oil, go with the lowest Noack oil you can get your hands on. Usually this translates to being a heavy, synthetic (preferably PAO), narrow cross-grade with a low level of approval (less DI is good).

Last edited by SonofJoe; 06/24/17 08:23 AM.
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440178
06/24/17 08:25 AM
06/24/17 08:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,558
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,558
Idaho
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".


Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
Once the oil thickens . Oil burning will be lessened.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: CT8] #4440187
06/24/17 08:34 AM
06/24/17 08:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".




Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
Once the oil thickens . Oil burning will be lessened.


But plenty of thick 20w50 with high noack.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440192
06/24/17 08:40 AM
06/24/17 08:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,268
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,268
Upper Midwest
Out of everything that is or isn't published about motor oils, the three parameters that I can't see how they relate to performance of an oil in an ICE are NOACK, flash point and pour point. Sure there are standardized tests but how do the results directly relate to what happens in an engine?


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440194
06/24/17 08:41 AM
06/24/17 08:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
Valvoline synpower 20w50 has 8% noack. Thats kind of high for 20w50 in my opinion.


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: merconvvv] #4440200
06/24/17 08:47 AM
06/24/17 08:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've never seen a correlation between NOACK and oil usage. Not saying there ISNT one, but I've had HIGHER usage on some low NOACK oils in Subarus. Base oil chemistry is a bigger factor, I might guess. Oil is oil is an oversimplification by laypersons.
Also critical is PCV system. Oil is Fogged into a mist in the crankcase and the PCV baffling has to separate oil from blowby "fumes".




Can you say which low noack oils gave you higher consumption. Thanks.
Once the oil thickens . Oil burning will be lessened.


But plenty of thick 20w50 with high noack.



Not the 20W50s I used to formulate! It's a while ago since I did this but as I recall, 5 - 6% was the norm, and that's with old fashioned Group I and not trying too hard to optimise the oil specifically for Noack.

It's as rare a hens teeth but if you can find it, opt for 20W40 rather than 20W50. It's truly wonderful for passing Noack orientated engine tests. It's also brilliant in diesel engines.

Last edited by SonofJoe; 06/24/17 08:47 AM.
Re: shell 10w30 noack 12% [Re: kschachn] #4440201
06/24/17 08:47 AM
06/24/17 08:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
merconvvv Offline OP
merconvvv  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 682
il usa
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Out of everything that is or isn't published about motor oils, the three parameters that I can't see how they relate to performance of an oil in an ICE are NOACK, flash point and pour point. Sure there are standardized tests but how do the results directly relate to what happens in an engine?


Would be interested to know what oil each of your 4 cars get. Do you change oil by season? Do you drive cross country in any of those cars ?


1988 Mazda RX7 na PP 10w30 Noack 4.7
1994 Chrysler Concorde 3.3
1999 Ford Expedition 4.6 QSUD 10W30 NOACK 5.0
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