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TBN Limits #4438566
06/22/17 01:32 PM
06/22/17 01:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
NStuart Offline OP
NStuart  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
I believe bitog'ers say 3.0 tbn change the oil and Blackstone says 1.0

Please educate me on tbn condemnation so I understand.I am seeing between 5.2 and 5.8 tbn on 20k Schaeffer 9000 5w40 and don't plan on changing oil anytime soon
Thanks!

Last edited by wwillson; 06/22/17 01:34 PM. Reason: subject clarification
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438592
06/22/17 01:58 PM
06/22/17 01:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,760
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,760
Upstate NY
I say at 2 you plan the oil change and at 1 you do it very soon.

But unless you have a diesel with many gallons of oil, you will most of the time not be looking at a UOA to see if you should change the oil. You sample and change.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438610
06/22/17 02:12 PM
06/22/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,040
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,040
Virginia
Well that's a very good TBN. However what is the total acid number?? The condemnation limit is according to some people where TBN is equal to TAN. While others suggest TAN a tad higher than TBN can still be viable for a little while. Plus, what is the oils viscosity at 100C?? Is it within it's proper range?? Or has it sheared well out of grade?? Also what if any other containments are present?? Fuel or possible antifreeze?? Sodium with potassium present would be an indicator of antifreeze present in your oil.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: TBN Limits [Re: bbhero] #4438636
06/22/17 02:31 PM
06/22/17 02:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
NStuart Offline OP
NStuart  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well that's a very good TBN. However what is the total acid number?? The condemnation limit is according to some people where TBN is equal to TAN. While others suggest TAN a tad higher than TBN can still be viable for a little while. Plus, what is the oils viscosity at 100C?? Is it within it's proper range?? Or has it sheared well out of grade?? Also what if any other containments are present?? Fuel or possible antifreeze?? Sodium with potassium present would be an indicator of antifreeze present in your oil.


13.17 and 13.84 cst 2 diff trucks, the bypass system makes it a total of 11 gallons per truck capacity no fuel dilution no antifreeze or sodium all other where metals are in check


Detroit14l 1m75k mi bp schaffer9k 30k oil
96 ram 5.9 gas 80k built tranny 5k m1
85 cj7 4.2 performance build. Schaeffer 9000
08 cbr600rr graffiti. T6
08 husky sm610 t6
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438637
06/22/17 02:31 PM
06/22/17 02:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
NStuart Offline OP
NStuart  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
15.3 cst upper limit


Detroit14l 1m75k mi bp schaffer9k 30k oil
96 ram 5.9 gas 80k built tranny 5k m1
85 cj7 4.2 performance build. Schaeffer 9000
08 cbr600rr graffiti. T6
08 husky sm610 t6
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438652
06/22/17 02:41 PM
06/22/17 02:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,760
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,760
Upstate NY
Unfortunately most UOA places give you TBN for motor oil and TAN for gear oil. Not too often do you get both. But I assume you can pay more for both.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438744
06/22/17 04:45 PM
06/22/17 04:45 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,092
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,092
upstate NY
I used to have a couple Volvos and their lowest TBN was either 1 or 1.5 as the cut off. Detroit Diesel says one third of the virgin TBN or 3.0 using either method (ASTM D4739 or D2896). That goes tor your Series 60s or my DD13 engine. I don't recall either Volvo or Detroit mentioning TAN in the consideration.

I had several UOAs where TAN far exceeded TBN but it was a non issue. A few of them showed a few more PPM of bearing metals but still in the single digits and no harm as far as I was concerned.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 101k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438859
06/22/17 07:22 PM
06/22/17 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
I get my oil analyses done at Polaris, and they say to change at 35% of virgin TBN. They don't look at TAN at all.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4438939
06/22/17 08:37 PM
06/22/17 08:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
NStuart Offline OP
NStuart  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 279
Sav ga
I will have to look it up I think it started out with the just below 12


Detroit14l 1m75k mi bp schaffer9k 30k oil
96 ram 5.9 gas 80k built tranny 5k m1
85 cj7 4.2 performance build. Schaeffer 9000
08 cbr600rr graffiti. T6
08 husky sm610 t6
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4439307
06/23/17 09:56 AM
06/23/17 09:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,870
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,870
Connecticut
3 Taxi cab UOA's

Shannow posted that yesterday. If you were only going by TBN of 2-3 or greater, you'd be using those 3 sets of OCI's well past their point of failure. TAN had crossed TBN well before the 2-3 range. TBN by itself is not necessarily helpful. In this case failure around TBN's of 4.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: TBN Limits [Re: NStuart] #4439557
06/23/17 02:22 PM
06/23/17 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,695
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline
userfriendly  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,695
BC, Canada
The highest I have heard of is 100 (2-stroke cylinder oil), when a TBN of 70 just won't cut it.


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