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#4437860 - 06/21/17 06:14 PM Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification
kenpoed Offline


Registered: 11/08/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Pennsylvania
Went to a website stating the list of approved oils is changing for dexos warranty soon. It seemed at first glance they were eliminating most syn blends and paring down the approved oils (I assume many companies don't want to pay to be dexos approved).

Based on how I read this list only euro pennzoil platinum would be on the dexos 2 list for pennzoil, Is this right?

http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-about/

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#4437864 - 06/21/17 06:21 PM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35859
Loc: Great Lakes
M1 esp 5w30 meets dexos2 as well.
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#4437966 - 06/21/17 08:39 PM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
Panzerman Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 4203
Loc: Port Orange, Florida
If these car makers are testing oil to certify it to meet thier specification's that's Great but if they are just selling certification like Dodge did Pennzoil then it's just side cash for the auto maker and bull.
Iam not a GM guy but I go for the Dexros oil certs if I can.
Dodge perturbs me with the Pennzoil Ultra deal.
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#4438056 - 06/21/17 10:32 PM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4421
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Dexos 1 is a passanger car motor oil spec.
Dexos 2 is a diesel oil spec.

I am guessing you asking about the upcoming Dexos 1 Gen 2 spec?

I had read that to meet the Dexos1Gen2 spec, the oil will have to be mostly synthetic, it is near impossible to meet with conventional, and very hard for even a blend.
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#4438094 - 06/21/17 11:08 PM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 3230
Loc: Central Iowa
You have that right. But also, the dexos1 gen 2 spec does not become the standard till September. And then, it will only be the standard required for 2018+ model year vehicles. Everything up till then still has a dexos1 gen 1 recommendation. One can use gen 2 in a pre-2018 MY vehicle, but not required. I don't use any oil on the dexos1 gen 1 or gen 2 list anyway in my GM vehicles and don't worry about it. I understand other's concerns for doing so, but they don't need to overthink the issue.
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#4438157 - 06/22/17 02:53 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
kenpoed Offline


Registered: 11/08/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Pennsylvania
You guys are right. My 14 chevy equinox would fit into the broader category. Geez I'm not the smartest guy in the world but at first glance that is a bit confusing.

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#4438158 - 06/22/17 03:10 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
SonofJoe Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 1052
Loc: Europe
Dexos 2 seems to be going the same way as most European OEM recommended oils; more and better synthetic, more and better additive, more stringent engine/rig/lab tests. Of course this makes the oil significantly more expensive which naturally the OEMs don't give tinker's cuss about because they don't have to pay for what they recommend. I'll concede that if you're going to move to very long OCIs or drive like a maniac, these 'super oils' can make sense. However if all you're going to do is tootle around in your rather ordinary car and change your oil every 5k - 7k, then the technical case for using a Dexos 2 oils fall apart completely.

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#4438160 - 06/22/17 03:17 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
weasley Offline


Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 749
Loc: UK
One significant driver for the Gen 2 upgrades is LSPI, which is why they are mandated for new engine designs. This puts focus on the additive mix, particularly the detergents, to reduce or eliminate LSPI events.
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#4438161 - 06/22/17 03:21 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
kenpoed Offline


Registered: 11/08/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Pennsylvania
What are lspi events?

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#4438162 - 06/22/17 03:30 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
kenpoed Offline


Registered: 11/08/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Pennsylvania
Ahh answered my own question. So am I to gather that to reduce lspi the oil essentially has to be a certain clinginess to the engine upon startup?

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#4438172 - 06/22/17 04:14 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
SonofJoe Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 1052
Loc: Europe
Yes, the Dexos 2 spec does contain an LSPI engine test, but with tens of thousands of TGDI engined vehicles out there on the roads today, functioning quite happily on NON-LSPI certified engine oils, it naturally begs the question, so what? And let's not forget that the extensively reported problems with the Hyundai/Kia Theta II GDI engine were absolutely nothing to do with LSPI.


Edited by SonofJoe (06/22/17 04:15 AM)

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#4438188 - 06/22/17 05:40 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1657
Loc: Crawfordville FL
Originally Posted By: kenpoed
Ahh answered my own question. So am I to gather that to reduce lspi the oil essentially has to be a certain clinginess to the engine upon startup?


No, it's about the additive pack uses. Certain additives appear to increase the chance of LSPI events
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#4438355 - 06/22/17 09:20 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: kenpoed]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2559
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: kenpoed
Ahh answered my own question. So am I to gather that to reduce lspi the oil essentially has to be a certain clinginess to the engine upon startup?


(Note: I think when SonofJoe mentions "Dexos 2" he really means "dexos1 Gen2". dexos1 is never capitalized. dexos1 is for gasoline engines. Am I right? Seems that way from your text SonofJoe.)

About LSPI, "clinginess" is not relevant to it. You might be referring to the polarity of oil and additives which stick to the surfaces enabling a tribofilm to form.
LSPI technical papers and GM's own dexos1 Gen2 claims indicate it is a complicated detonation issue which can be influenced by some additive combinations in oils, so dexos1 Gen2 oils are usually better at avoiding LSPI in most engines.

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#4438375 - 06/22/17 09:45 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: oil_film_movies]
SonofJoe Offline


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 1052
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: kenpoed
Ahh answered my own question. So am I to gather that to reduce lspi the oil essentially has to be a certain clinginess to the engine upon startup?


(Note: I think when SonofJoe mentions "Dexos 2" he really means "dexos1 Gen2". dexos1 is never capitalized. dexos1 is for gasoline engines. Am I right? Seems that way from your text SonofJoe.)

About LSPI, "clinginess" is not relevant to it. You might be referring to the polarity of oil and additives which stick to the surfaces enabling a tribofilm to form.
LSPI technical papers and GM's own dexos1 Gen2 claims indicate it is a complicated detonation issue which can be influenced by some additive combinations in oils, so dexos1 Gen2 oils are usually better at avoiding LSPI in most engines.


Appy polly loggies!. Yes, I did mean dexos 1 Gen 2, not dexos 2 (the diesel spec).

Oh, and while 'dexos' might not be capitalised, BITOG autocorrect always annoyingly puts in the capital D, so it's basically not my fault!

And yes, I've seen the various studies that suggests overbased Calcium detergent contributes to LSPI events and that you're better off with one based on Magnesium. If I'm honest though, I do question why you need a new specification to make this happen. Under the existing Minor Modification rules, you're allowed to interchange a certain amount of Ca for Mg with Level 1 support and more if you have Level 2 support. I also seem to recall you can legitimately add Mg under the TBN Booster rule.









Edited by SonofJoe (06/22/17 09:46 AM)

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#4438391 - 06/22/17 10:02 AM Re: Dexos 1 and dexos 2 clarification [Re: SonofJoe]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2559
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
And yes, I've seen the various studies that suggests overbased Calcium detergent contributes to LSPI events and that you're better off with one based on Magnesium. If I'm honest though, I do question why you need a new specification to make this happen. Under the existing Minor Modification rules, you're allowed to interchange a certain amount of Ca for Mg with Level 1 support and more if you have Level 2 support. I also seem to recall you can legitimately add Mg under the TBN Booster rule.


I've wondered how GM gets away with using only 1 engine design to test for dexos1 LSPI. Seems LSPI is also a function of piston & chamber shape unique to every engine.
They came up with something that kind of tests for it anyway! At least GF-6 will use another separate engine design to test of LSPI on top of dexos1's one engine.

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