Recent Topics
Comma X-Tech 5w30 oil, any good?
by BobGoblin. 12/17/18 11:40 AM
Modern Engine's Grenading?
by Nickdfresh. 12/17/18 11:15 AM
Magnetic Smartphone Holders
by willbur. 12/17/18 11:06 AM
1991 Caprice 5.0l hard starting in the AM
by WyrTwister. 12/17/18 10:55 AM
Question about new Peak OEM coolants
by PD001. 12/17/18 10:21 AM
Rev X
by Big_3_Only. 12/17/18 10:04 AM
Cleanliness
by WyrTwister. 12/17/18 08:12 AM
Gear whine
by odotb. 12/17/18 07:38 AM
Honda Pilot Oil specs US vs Overseas
by parshisa. 12/17/18 06:23 AM
Advisory on Roku TV's
by LoneRanger. 12/17/18 05:44 AM
Chevy Commercial Parody
by 02SE. 12/17/18 02:37 AM
Fluctuating Tachometer Fixed!
by jerseyguy123. 12/17/18 02:10 AM
2015 MB GLA250: OEM oil vs Mobil1 Formula M
by SlavaB. 12/17/18 12:39 AM
Shotgun Ammo
by user52165. 12/16/18 10:24 PM
Bought a Model 3 for wifey
by JeffKeryk. 12/16/18 09:01 PM
Maybe I'm crazy.
by TRDPRO85. 12/16/18 07:50 PM
Pacer EON E-11 Synthetic Motor Fluid
by Brandon9797. 12/16/18 07:46 PM
Newest Members
stantaur, Brandon9797, Landngroove, DanielH, Cpcz9382
66700 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
99 registered members (69Torino, aquariuscsm, Anduril, bdcardinal, 69GTX, Ag76, 10 invisible), 2,063 guests, and 50 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics295,184
Posts4,929,387
Members66,700
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... #4437381
06/21/17 07:39 AM
06/21/17 07:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,576
'Stralia
Shannow Offline OP
Shannow  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,576
'Stralia
http://articles.sae.org/14885/

Quote:
Volvo is using a blast of compressed air to boost torque delivery and exorcise turbo "lag" of its new D5 diesel engine. It's a comparatively simple technology solution that works very effectively, as company engineers demonstrated to Automotive Engineering on a lengthy and often demanding test drive of the D5-powered V90 station wagon in southern Spain.

Volvo has dubbed the novel, heavily patented diesel air-delivery system "PowerPulse." It serves as a cost-effective alternative to using a 48-V hybrid system with electrically-driven turbocharger or supercharger to rapidly spin up turbines at low engine revs.

Volvo powertrain engineers spent more than three years developing PowerPulse, on the same critical path as the D5 engine. The 2.0-L 4-cylinder direct injected diesel delivers a claimed 173 kW (232 hp) and 480 N·m (354 lb·ft). A lower-powered D4 version producing 140 kW (188 hp) and 400 N·m (295 lb·ft) without PowerPulse also is available.

A simple, compact system

On the road PowerPulse literally blows into action, helping the V90 wagon accelerate from standing start to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 7.2 s which, bearing in mind the car’s power output and 1817-kg (4006-lb) curb weight, is brisk but not exceptional. The car’s automatic transmission is an 8-speed Aisin. No manual gearbox is offered.


Back in Uni, when I had access to the SAE microfiche cache (yes that long ago).

One of the SAE papers that I loved was a Chev concept test car which had a low volume compressor, charging a fibreglass sphere in the trunk, then under acceleration, using it through a venturi ejector and blow through carb to provide effective supercharging on demand.

Lots of boot space taken up with what was an essentially bootstrapped design...but this new Volvo thing is scarcely unique in concept.

Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437405
06/21/17 08:15 AM
06/21/17 08:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,740
Rochester, NY
NateDN10 Offline
NateDN10  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,740
Rochester, NY
According to the article they don't use the compressed air tank to blow air into the intake, like the Chevy system you mentioned - they blow it into the exhaust, to spool the turbo. So to me it seems like the only similarity is the compressed air tank.


2016 Mazda3 - 20,000 mi.
2011 Toyota Sienna - 100,000 mi.
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437408
06/21/17 08:18 AM
06/21/17 08:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
If I'm understanding it correctly, then PowerPulse is just a quick thing, to beat turbo lag. So the lower power version is just a ploy to get one to buy the better tech. If I'm understanding it correctly.

Interesting concept. I'm a bit surprised though, I thought variable vane tech had "fixed" turbo lag. Maybe it was still there but I got used to it, when I had a turbo.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437444
06/21/17 09:11 AM
06/21/17 09:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,039
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,039
Canuck living in California
I'm waiting for the steam to make a comeback, I'm pretty sure it was also GM that fiddled with it in their trucks.

Last edited by KrisZ; 06/21/17 09:12 AM.

2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: NateDN10] #4437459
06/21/17 09:24 AM
06/21/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,191
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,191
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
According to the article they don't use the compressed air tank to blow air into the intake, like the Chevy system you mentioned - they blow it into the exhaust, to spool the turbo.


Why not blow it into the intake side?

Or have a jet that blows against the tips of the compressor wheel... kind of like a Penton turbine?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437508
06/21/17 10:14 AM
06/21/17 10:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
This has emissions implications, of course. For a Diesel, running "over" (more air then needed to support full combustion) leads to less particulates then running "under".

Remember, in the automotive world, everything has to be done cheaply. That means actuators are on/off whenever possible, and not incremental (e.g. PWM controlled) if possible. So a simple on/off air dump actuator in the turbo exhaust path is the simplest way to go. All other sensors and programming would remain the same.

Also, back to emissions, dumping air in the intake would lead to a backpressure situation that would momentarily interrupt airflow once the pressurized air is cut off. That would lead to a momentary high emissions event. A PWM controlled actuator could better control that, see previous about cost engineering.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437514
06/21/17 10:17 AM
06/21/17 10:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,662
Central Maryland
Quote:
Finally possessing a platform the delivers the structure and chassis dynamics necessary to deliver premium-class ride quality, Volvo development engineers are now focusing on NVH and other details, stated Product Manager Lars Lagström. He contrasted the company's Geely ownership to the years under Ford, when "there were always squeezed budgets" and "it was short-term everything." Ford, Lagström noted, "never understood Volvo."


That totally matches my understanding of Ford.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437557
06/21/17 11:02 AM
06/21/17 11:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,703
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,703
Southeast
Tangent.

^^^

interesting. the previous gen s60 I believe was designed before ford bought them. the early s60s were solid, bank-vault like. I had an 01 and an 05. The 09, which was the final year of that body, has a lot of cost cutting. I wonder if ford played a role there-- interior glues, material assembly, and increased body panel gaps are obvious. I test drove a '14 before I bought the 09 and it was a further step backward. It was solid and well built, but the plastics were less supple and the cabin noise had increased noticeably. Even the degraded '09 was quieter and felt more hefty/solid. It did not drive or feel like a volvo to me, more like an accord, especially with the road noise and feel, which was responsive, but felt very lightweight and bouncy - not a typical volvo feel to me. So we went with the '09.

don't get me wrong, the 14 was by no means a bad car--- but compared to the previous gen it seemed to have lost some of the driving characteristics that I personally enjoy.

Last edited by meep; 06/21/17 11:03 AM.

2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437636
06/21/17 12:31 PM
06/21/17 12:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 435
USA - Southern California
Skid Offline
Skid  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 435
USA - Southern California
In the 90s when I was into turbos, someone was telling me of a drag racer in the 70s or 80s who was running a compressed air tank and pre-spooling his turbos. The drag racer was a car book author (not of turbos though). I just don't remember his name now.

Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: HangFire] #4437757
06/21/17 02:50 PM
06/21/17 02:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,580
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,580
Toronto
Oh for sure implications to emissions are included. I'd put money on Volvo using the system as an emission strategy also. Small things like the throttle-shut rich condition known and loved by all. The fuel present could be exploited to keep the turbine spun, while also reducing the downstream rich condition. Fresh oxygen, without having to pass through the CC, could enhance the catalyst performance also.


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4437810
06/21/17 04:00 PM
06/21/17 04:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,752
Rijeka, EU
chrisri Offline
chrisri  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,752
Rijeka, EU
https://www.google.hr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsroom/automotive-innovation/hybrid-air/&ved=0ahUKEwiT3eDU98_UAhXPzRoKHYv6C8wQFggZMAA&usg=AFQjCNHt1CMARhrQ2jISyElm-OX1dU54og&sig2=MFt_ZrqSiEJxxQGIn9vXBw

PSA is making compressed air hybrid.


02 Nissan Terrano 2.7.TDi Motul 15w40
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet SHU 5w40
07 Opel Vectra SW 1.9 CDTI 150 MST 5w40
Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: NateDN10] #4438169
06/22/17 02:59 AM
06/22/17 02:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,576
'Stralia
Shannow Offline OP
Shannow  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,576
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
According to the article they don't use the compressed air tank to blow air into the intake, like the Chevy system you mentioned - they blow it into the exhaust, to spool the turbo. So to me it seems like the only similarity is the compressed air tank.


that's why I said "sort of"...cosider the turbo as a lever...push the intake end, or push the turbine.

Re: Volvo reinvents (sort of) a 1960s chev concept... [Re: Shannow] #4438285
06/22/17 07:09 AM
06/22/17 07:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,703
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,703
Southeast
Seems like the Focus RS has something similar between shifts where it dumps fuel during the exhaust stroke - intentional backfiring - which keeps the turbo spun up for when the driver grabs the next gear.


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™