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"flakes" in pleats #4437159
06/20/17 08:54 PM
06/20/17 08:54 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
stuka Offline OP
stuka  Offline OP
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
Changed oil today. I have what appears to be very small aluminum (shiny) flakes in the inside pleats. Very small pieces, reminds me of glitter, size wise. Not a ton of it but some in almost every pleat. Just wondering how abnormal/normal is it to find this?

Little background. Fresh rebuild of the engine. Probably about 200 miles on it. Oil was M1 5w30 and Motorcraft filter. Builder told me to switch to conventional for break in, he says for 8-10K miles. I switched to Havoline 10w30. That probably doesn't matter to the question, just filling in what I am doing. Engine is a 5.4 Ford, supercharged.

So is this normal, or am I in trouble and have to do this over? Thanks.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437164
06/20/17 09:02 PM
06/20/17 09:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,699
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Online content
FlyNavyP3  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,699
Jacksonville, FL
If it doesn't clear up next time that may be trouble. But it's not at all unusual to find metal in the filter of a new engine.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437167
06/20/17 09:05 PM
06/20/17 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
Seattle
Superflop Offline
Superflop  Offline
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
Seattle
Yeah i wouldnt worry. Synthetic break in oil isnt a problem nor is some glitter in the filter during that period. Run the next oil longer and check again you should see less maybe as that was a very short oci.


2002 saab 9-5 2.3t wagon
2014 dodge grand caravan
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437184
06/20/17 09:24 PM
06/20/17 09:24 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
stuka Offline OP
stuka  Offline OP
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
Thank you guys. Makes me feel better. I did google the question before I posted here. There were varying answers from 'keep an eye on it', to 'your engine is eating itself'. Not much beyond that. Aside from the change in oil, from syn to conventional and up in viscosity from a 5w to a 10w, I also went with a Ford racing filter. Local race shop sold it to me for $6.50. Only about $2 more than a Motorcraft. I plan on running this oil for 3,000 mi. This is actually the 3rd change since the engine was done. According to the engine builders schedule. First time I cut open the filter though.

Thanks for the replies.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437233
06/21/17 12:56 AM
06/21/17 12:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 220
NY
DdDd Offline
DdDd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 220
NY
New or rebuild is normal. Thick flakes are actually better than fine metalflake glitter. If it continues for more than next oil change you have a problem.

Every factory fresh vehicle I've owned had shiny first filter FWIW... it resumes to normal after break in.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437295
06/21/17 05:45 AM
06/21/17 05:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,413
Kansas
Kruse Offline
Kruse  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,413
Kansas
Originally Posted By: stuka
I also went with a Ford racing filter.


You never really said anything about the engine. You didn't even say how it will be used.
But you do know that a racing filter is meant for flow and not for filtration, don't you?
On an "A to B" grocery-getter, a cheap $2 filter will keep out more contaminants.
But hey, it's your engine.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437380
06/21/17 07:37 AM
06/21/17 07:37 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Shoplikely didn't brush and blow out the galleries and the crank drills thoroughly.. Not a rebuild like it was for your mother smile
Sadly almost normal to see if it was under a few grand.

Subaru lost hundreds of turbo engines on WRX a few years ago due to poor crank cleaning after machining.

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 06/21/17 07:38 AM.

2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437382
06/21/17 07:40 AM
06/21/17 07:40 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Good luck finding conventional oil w/0 slickifiers. ILSAC GF is not good for wear-in either.
No ILSAC are conventional.

Maybe try a cheap MC oil.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437430
06/21/17 08:51 AM
06/21/17 08:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,582
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,582
Idaho
Engine break in happens with any base oil.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: Kruse] #4437445
06/21/17 09:11 AM
06/21/17 09:11 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
stuka Offline OP
stuka  Offline OP
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
Yup, It's my engine.

If you look at the stats on this page: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1686256
It shows the Ford racing filter, filters 99% to 20 microns, vs the standard Motorcraft 80% to 20 microns. I think it will be fine.

What was I supposed to say about the engine, other than what I put in the OP? It's a supercharged 5.4 Ford. It's a street vehicle that sees the track 3-5 times a year. Crank HP is about 650-675. Started as a rebuild, found the block had a crack, so new block bored .030" over, reused the rods, heads, crank. New pistons. That's about it.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4437456
06/21/17 09:24 AM
06/21/17 09:24 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
stuka Offline OP
stuka  Offline OP
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Good luck finding conventional oil w/0 slickifiers. ILSAC GF is not good for wear-in either.
No ILSAC are conventional.

Maybe try a cheap MC oil.


I'm not that educated on oil yet to know exactly what is what. I'm reading and learning....slowly. My builder just said "conventional". I haven;t been able to get ahold of him for a while, so I called another builder that specializes in these engines. He told me Havoline, or Chevron supreme 5w30, or 10w30 if it was hot where I live. Considering it's been in the 90s for a few weeks and summer is just starting, I figure that qualifies as hot, so I got 10w30. They didn't have CS where I was shopping, in fact, I don't think I have ever seen it here at all. Havoline is everywhere.

I don't have a PCV system, I have filtered breather cans off each valve cover. I did notice that with this oil, they start to smoke within a minute or two of the engine being started, whereas the M1 would smoke but the oil had to be hot, like in the engine at full operating temp. I have concerns that this stuff will cook off pretty quickly.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437491
06/21/17 09:56 AM
06/21/17 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,183
Waco, TX
Linctex Online content
Linctex  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,183
Waco, TX
Stuka, did you go with the same builder that did your last engine?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: stuka] #4437524
06/21/17 10:30 AM
06/21/17 10:30 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
You didn't use an exhaust header reed-valve crankcase fume extractor?


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: Linctex] #4437542
06/21/17 10:51 AM
06/21/17 10:51 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
stuka Offline OP
stuka  Offline OP
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Stuka, did you go with the same builder that did your last engine?

Nope. This time was a machine shop/engine builders. Last was a repair shop/builder.

Re: "flakes" in pleats [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4437543
06/21/17 10:52 AM
06/21/17 10:52 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
stuka Offline OP
stuka  Offline OP
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 24
Missouri
No extractors. Just the vented cans. Looking for a vac pump setup but so far nothing suitable.

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