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Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? #4437067
06/20/17 08:08 PM
06/20/17 08:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,021
OH
fdcg27 Offline OP
fdcg27  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,021
OH
I've been surprised to learn how high the NOACK test percentage of mass lost is for both T5 and T6.
Even PP in the 0W-20 grade puts either of these HDEOs on the trailer when it comes to percentage of mass lost in the NOACK test.
Can someone help me to understand that the obvious conclusion that these oils are made of inferior basestock blends is wrong?


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4437140
06/20/17 09:37 PM
06/20/17 09:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,363
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,363
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
I read about these oils being burned off faster than others


02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4437173
06/20/17 10:12 PM
06/20/17 10:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 485
Joplin
Cressida Offline
Cressida  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 485
Joplin
The T5 in 10w-30 is showing around 13%. Here are the specs:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/shellrotellatT51030.htm

I purchased a couple of gallons of this and am planning on using this oil in a couple of my old cars, but now wonder if I should not have made that choice for gasoline engines...

From my notes, the T5 has a HTHSV of 3.5cP (in 10w-30) and is comprised of group II/III base - no PAO.

Last edited by Cressida; 06/20/17 10:16 PM.
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4437329
06/21/17 07:31 AM
06/21/17 07:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 513
Vienna, VA
TinyVoices Offline
TinyVoices  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 513
Vienna, VA
I have heard the opposite. T6 is praised in the Subaru and turbo car community as an oil that prevents burning and helps condition turbo seals. Give t6 and Subaru a Google and you will see what I'm talking about.


1993 Toyota MR2 Hardtop N/A - 160k miles - Valvoline Max Life 5w30
2006 Toyota Matrix XR AWD (Fiancee) - 130k miles - Valvoline Max Life 5w30
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: TinyVoices] #4437341
06/21/17 07:47 AM
06/21/17 07:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Originally Posted By: TinyVoices
I have heard the opposite. T6 is praised in the Subaru and turbo car community as an oil that prevents burning and helps condition turbo seals. Give t6 and Subaru a Google and you will see what I'm talking about.


I heard the same thing, but then I saw actual test results on the PQIA website...unfortunately, these are from 2014 and I believe that T6 has been reformulated since then. This report was fairly new when I first looked at T6.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/shellrotellat6.htm

Doesn't mean that T6 can't be good oil for a turbo Subaru, but that is just plain not an impressive NOACK loss result there.


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4437385
06/21/17 08:46 AM
06/21/17 08:46 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,192
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,192
N.H, U.S.A.
Never had a relationship between NOACK and oil burn-off in a passenger car.

I didn't like T5 the ONE time I tried it. Used to run T3 triple protect in ODPE and Old Subaru EJ motors. Cant find it anywhere.

The old formula Red bottle defy 10w30 was stupendous also.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: ARCOgraphite] #4437980
06/21/17 08:52 PM
06/21/17 08:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,397
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,397
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Never had a relationship between NOACK and oil burn-off in a passenger car.

Bingo. Even in really high Noack oils back in the day with the taxis, some burned, some didn't. Sure, a lower Noack might be "better," but we do have to be cautious how much we hang our hats on one number only.

If someone's really worried about Noack, just run a monograde. There will never be a concern about Noack. Everything else might be haywire, but the Noack will be right.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: Garak] #4438790
06/22/17 05:59 PM
06/22/17 05:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,021
OH
fdcg27 Offline OP
fdcg27  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,021
OH
Garak, you're right in that NOACK isn't the only metric to consider in a motor oil, but it may be among the more important ones.
NOACK does tell a user a lot about the quality of the basestocks used in formulating an oil.


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4439097
06/23/17 12:53 AM
06/23/17 12:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,397
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,397
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I don't doubt its importance, but we have to watch what we divine out of that. Mola has posted months ago that there are ways to get some impressive Noacks without fantastic base stocks. Like I said, run a monograde, and you'll have a fantastic Noack.

When it comes to HDEOs, while I'm no formulator, perhaps there aren't many overriding reasons to go wild on getting the Noack down to what we see with some of the A3/B4 type oils with OEM certifications.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4495468
08/22/17 06:12 PM
08/22/17 06:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,225
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,225
Wet side WA
I use T6 in my 2006 Duramax I usually change oil it in a 5500 to 6000 mile range. I have never had to add oil between changes. In fact I don't remember ever having a real drop on the dip stick ever? I use it most to tow a 14,000 lbs. fifthweel. Because of the towing I never go for extended OCI's


2004 Corolla 124831
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4499414
08/27/17 12:20 PM
08/27/17 12:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 294
Pacific NW USA
GemStater Offline
GemStater  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 294
Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: TinyVoices
...unfortunately, these are from 2014 and I believe that T6 has been reformulated since then.


Correct! The CK-4 version is out now.

One notible change is T5/T6 is now formulated with a quantity of Shell PurePlus GTL base oils. I'd imagine NOACK would be lower now than past CJ-4 formulations.


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Restoration
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: GemStater] #4499561
08/27/17 03:36 PM
08/27/17 03:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,824
In the shop
53' Stude Offline
53' Stude  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,824
In the shop
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Originally Posted By: TinyVoices
...unfortunately, these are from 2014 and I believe that T6 has been reformulated since then.


Correct! The CK-4 version is out now.

One notible change is T5/T6 is now formulated with a quantity of Shell PurePlus GTL base oils. I'd imagine NOACK would be lower now than past CJ-4 formulations.


Not hardly


09' Camry LE, 141,020 miles

PP 5w30 and TG 4967
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #4499705
08/27/17 07:02 PM
08/27/17 07:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 36
West Michigan
Spike555 Offline
Spike555  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 36
West Michigan
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
I use T6 in my 2006 Duramax I usually change oil it in a 5500 to 6000 mile range. I have never had to add oil between changes. In fact I don't remember ever having a real drop on the dip stick ever? I use it most to tow a 14,000 lbs. fifthweel. Because of the towing I never go for extended OCI's


You're changing your oil way to often. You can easily go 10k using that oil and towing that trailer.
That oil is rated for 80,000 miles in OTR trucks.
We used standard Rotella 15w-40 in our Duramax at work, 10k oil changes and we still got 300,000 miles out of them, and thats as a delivery van fully loaded foot to the floor stop and go all day 5 days a week drive it like your stole it.

Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: Spike555] #4499774
08/27/17 08:16 PM
08/27/17 08:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,225
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,225
Wet side WA
Spike this year the truck has seen very few miles a little over 2k all towing it will be a year in October. The Oil monitor says 80%. The fuel filter I skipped last year and it shows at 50% I will likely change them both out along with a new Air intake filter the end of October. Just got the AC/Delco fuel filter their coming down used to be $32 got this last one for $19 and some change. The total cost oil, a Fram Ultra Guard filter and the fuel filter is going to run me $79.90. Less than just an oil change at the dealer for mineral oil.


2004 Corolla 124831
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Why are Rotella T5 & T6 so volatile? [Re: fdcg27] #4531979
10/02/17 11:42 AM
10/02/17 11:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 225
Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
WillB Offline
WillB  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 225
Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
We have been running T6 5W40 in our tractor since the first oil change. 890 hours and zero oil consumption.

Reslly want to run it in my truck, but GM says no 40w.

Last edited by WillB; 10/02/17 11:43 AM.

Thanks,

Will

2017 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4x4 Hemi 5.7 6 Speed Auto
2011 GMC 1500 CC 4WD 4.8 - Traded.

04 GMC 1500CC Z71 350,000km 217,000 miles - Retired.
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