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Oil Specification priorities #4436259
06/19/17 08:09 PM
06/19/17 08:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Offline OP
IllinoisSparky  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
When selecting an oil, I understand that the Manufacturers Approval is a primary consideration. I have 4 vehicles with 4 different approvals smile
But, I am wondering about the various specifications available at most manufacturers websites. I have made a few assumptions below.

In particular:
1. VI - larger number is better, right? Range is generally 160-190
2. Shear - Larger number better? Most are 3.x-4.x
3. NOACK - Smaller % is better?

Priority - How do you rank the following specs in importance between oils with correct approval:
TBN
VI
Shear
NOACK

Thanks.
Sorry if this is already out there. I searched with no luck.


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436263
06/19/17 08:15 PM
06/19/17 08:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,632
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,632
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
When selecting an oil, I understand that the Manufacturers Approval is a primary consideration. I have 4 vehicles with 4 different approvals smile
But, I am wondering about the various specifications available at most manufacturers websites. I have made a few assumptions below.

In particular:
1. VI - larger number is better, right? Range is generally 160-190

Not necessarily. For example, if high VI is achieved by having a ton of VIIs, then that's not good.

Quote:
2. Shear - Larger number better? Most are 3.x-4.x

High HT/HS viscosity is only better if your engine requires it. If it doesn't require it, then it just negatively impacts fuel economy.

Quote:
3. NOACK - Smaller % is better?

Yes.


Quote:
Priority - How do you rank the following specs in importance between oils with correct approval:
TBN
VI
Shear
NOACK

It really depends on the application. If I want to run a long OCI, then high TBN would be important. If I'm racing at the track, then possibly higher HT/HS viscosity would be rather important.

VI is just a calculated number based on 40C and 100C viscosity. VI isn't a part of any mfg spec requirement.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436269
06/19/17 08:22 PM
06/19/17 08:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,425
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,425
PA
I think by "shear" you mean "high temperature/high shear (HTHS) viscosity." Probably best to clarify that, as "shear" is a process, not a spec.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436271
06/19/17 08:25 PM
06/19/17 08:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Do you live someplace where pour point would be a consideration? And is API or ACEA Service Class a requirement as in keeping the warranty enforce?

For some these may not be at the top of the list but would be an absolute requirement when making a choice.

Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436273
06/19/17 08:27 PM
06/19/17 08:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,440
MI
doitmyself Offline
doitmyself  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,440
MI
My limited education on oil leads me to the belief that you cannot compare and judge oils based on VOA data.

What some of the numbers tell you does not reflect the real world results. Lets examine TBN. Its assumed that a higher VOA TBN equates to a better oil. In reality, a lower starting TBN oil might be made of higher quality components. At the end of a 10,000 mile run, the better quality oil with initial lower TBN might end up with a higher TBN at the end of the OCI. Does that make sense?

Trying to determine oil quality by comparing VOA data is has limited value.*


* This is what the late (RIP) Stinky Peterson of CAT Oil Analysis tried to drum into my feeble brain many years ago. He emphasized that after doing thousands of UOA's, even he was unable to choose the silver bullet. An oil that was superb in Florida conditions might fail "noticebly" in Minnesota conditions. One might work excellent in a Ford and only average in a Chevy.

Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: Quattro Pete] #4436275
06/19/17 08:27 PM
06/19/17 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Offline OP
IllinoisSparky  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


In particular:
1. VI - larger number is better, right? Range is generally 160-190

Not necessarily. For example, if high VI is achieved by having a ton of VIIs, then that's not good.



Is there any way to know if the VI is legit, or artificially achieved?

Thanks for all the other answers, QP.


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436281
06/19/17 08:34 PM
06/19/17 08:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,425
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,425
PA
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: d00df00d] #4436284
06/19/17 08:37 PM
06/19/17 08:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,632
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,632
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation.

Yup. Same if you have a modern diesel engine with DPF.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: d00df00d] #4436298
06/19/17 08:48 PM
06/19/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Offline OP
IllinoisSparky  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


Thanks d00df00d. More excellent info. You and QP have given me the info I was looking for. thumbsup
Bitog Derangement Syndrome has caused me to put all the oils for my various approvals into a spreadsheet to evaluate before purchases. smile


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: Quattro Pete] #4436301
06/19/17 08:50 PM
06/19/17 08:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Offline OP
IllinoisSparky  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation.

Yup. Same if you have a modern diesel engine with DPF.


And I do. smile
Requires MB229.51, updated to MB229.52


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: d00df00d] #4436303
06/19/17 08:52 PM
06/19/17 08:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Offline OP
IllinoisSparky  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I think by "shear" you mean "high temperature/high shear (HTHS) viscosity." Probably best to clarify that, as "shear" is a process, not a spec.


Ooops. blush
Correct - referring to HTHS.


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436304
06/19/17 08:52 PM
06/19/17 08:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 518
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 518
E. Tennessee
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


Thanks d00df00d. More excellent info. You and QP have given me the info I was looking for. thumbsup
Bitog Derangement Syndrome has caused me to put all the oils for my various approvals into a spreadsheet to evaluate before purchases. smile


Wow, so I'm NOT the only one to do that in a spreadsheet - Cool!


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (76K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (75K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: WhizkidTN] #4436305
06/19/17 08:56 PM
06/19/17 08:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,101
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,101
Michigan
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


Thanks d00df00d. More excellent info. You and QP have given me the info I was looking for. thumbsup
Bitog Derangement Syndrome has caused me to put all the oils for my various approvals into a spreadsheet to evaluate before purchases. smile


Wow, so I'm NOT the only one to do that in a spreadsheet - Cool!


Yeah, I have used spreadsheets a couple of times for choosing oils.
Now with CK4 diesel oils, I may have another one coming up.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: OneEyeJack] #4436306
06/19/17 09:00 PM
06/19/17 09:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Offline OP
IllinoisSparky  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Do you live someplace where pour point would be a consideration? And is API or ACEA Service Class a requirement as in keeping the warranty enforce?

For some these may not be at the top of the list but would be an absolute requirement when making a choice.



The Ford sits outside in winter, but temps below zero are rare.
Only the 2011 still has a warranty, and I am paranoid enough that I use MB228.52 5W-30, or an oil on the Mercedes Bevo site to be safe. thumbsup


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB
Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky] #4436318
06/19/17 09:17 PM
06/19/17 09:17 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 127
South Texas Rancho
TexasVaquero Offline
TexasVaquero  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 127
South Texas Rancho
Any Mobil 1 oil would do.


2014 NISSAN VERSA 5spd M/T- M1 EP 5w30 and M1 EP Filter. 5k OCI.
2011 CHEVY IMPALA 3.5ltrs - M1 HM 5w30 and M1 EP Filter. 3k OCI.
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