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#4436259 - 06/19/17 09:09 PM Oil Specification priorities
IllinoisSparky Offline


Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 255
Loc: Illinois USA
When selecting an oil, I understand that the Manufacturers Approval is a primary consideration. I have 4 vehicles with 4 different approvals smile
But, I am wondering about the various specifications available at most manufacturers websites. I have made a few assumptions below.

In particular:
1. VI - larger number is better, right? Range is generally 160-190
2. Shear - Larger number better? Most are 3.x-4.x
3. NOACK - Smaller % is better?

Priority - How do you rank the following specs in importance between oils with correct approval:
TBN
VI
Shear
NOACK

Thanks.
Sorry if this is already out there. I searched with no luck.
_________________________
04Ford Explorer PUP 5W-30/Amsoil EaO
99MB CLK320 Redline 5W-30/Mahle
09 BMW X5 3.0i OEM 5W-30/OEM
11MB E350 Bluetec PP EuroL 5W-30/OEM

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#4436263 - 06/19/17 09:15 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35885
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
When selecting an oil, I understand that the Manufacturers Approval is a primary consideration. I have 4 vehicles with 4 different approvals smile
But, I am wondering about the various specifications available at most manufacturers websites. I have made a few assumptions below.

In particular:
1. VI - larger number is better, right? Range is generally 160-190

Not necessarily. For example, if high VI is achieved by having a ton of VIIs, then that's not good.

Quote:
2. Shear - Larger number better? Most are 3.x-4.x

High HT/HS viscosity is only better if your engine requires it. If it doesn't require it, then it just negatively impacts fuel economy.

Quote:
3. NOACK - Smaller % is better?

Yes.


Quote:
Priority - How do you rank the following specs in importance between oils with correct approval:
TBN
VI
Shear
NOACK

It really depends on the application. If I want to run a long OCI, then high TBN would be important. If I'm racing at the track, then possibly higher HT/HS viscosity would be rather important.

VI is just a calculated number based on 40C and 100C viscosity. VI isn't a part of any mfg spec requirement.
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4436269 - 06/19/17 09:22 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11215
Loc: PA
I think by "shear" you mean "high temperature/high shear (HTHS) viscosity." Probably best to clarify that, as "shear" is a process, not a spec.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20

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#4436271 - 06/19/17 09:25 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California
Do you live someplace where pour point would be a consideration? And is API or ACEA Service Class a requirement as in keeping the warranty enforce?

For some these may not be at the top of the list but would be an absolute requirement when making a choice.

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#4436273 - 06/19/17 09:27 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 6226
Loc: MI
My limited education on oil leads me to the belief that you cannot compare and judge oils based on VOA data.

What some of the numbers tell you does not reflect the real world results. Lets examine TBN. Its assumed that a higher VOA TBN equates to a better oil. In reality, a lower starting TBN oil might be made of higher quality components. At the end of a 10,000 mile run, the better quality oil with initial lower TBN might end up with a higher TBN at the end of the OCI. Does that make sense?

Trying to determine oil quality by comparing VOA data is has limited value.*


* This is what the late (RIP) Stinky Peterson of CAT Oil Analysis tried to drum into my feeble brain many years ago. He emphasized that after doing thousands of UOA's, even he was unable to choose the silver bullet. An oil that was superb in Florida conditions might fail "noticebly" in Minnesota conditions. One might work excellent in a Ford and only average in a Chevy.

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#4436275 - 06/19/17 09:27 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: Quattro Pete]
IllinoisSparky Offline


Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 255
Loc: Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


In particular:
1. VI - larger number is better, right? Range is generally 160-190

Not necessarily. For example, if high VI is achieved by having a ton of VIIs, then that's not good.



Is there any way to know if the VI is legit, or artificially achieved?

Thanks for all the other answers, QP.
_________________________
04Ford Explorer PUP 5W-30/Amsoil EaO
99MB CLK320 Redline 5W-30/Mahle
09 BMW X5 3.0i OEM 5W-30/OEM
11MB E350 Bluetec PP EuroL 5W-30/OEM

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#4436281 - 06/19/17 09:34 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11215
Loc: PA
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20

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#4436284 - 06/19/17 09:37 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: d00df00d]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35885
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation.

Yup. Same if you have a modern diesel engine with DPF.
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4436298 - 06/19/17 09:48 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: d00df00d]
IllinoisSparky Offline


Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 255
Loc: Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


Thanks d00df00d. More excellent info. You and QP have given me the info I was looking for. thumbsup
Bitog Derangement Syndrome has caused me to put all the oils for my various approvals into a spreadsheet to evaluate before purchases. smile
_________________________
04Ford Explorer PUP 5W-30/Amsoil EaO
99MB CLK320 Redline 5W-30/Mahle
09 BMW X5 3.0i OEM 5W-30/OEM
11MB E350 Bluetec PP EuroL 5W-30/OEM

Top
#4436301 - 06/19/17 09:50 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: Quattro Pete]
IllinoisSparky Offline


Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 255
Loc: Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation.

Yup. Same if you have a modern diesel engine with DPF.


And I do. smile
Requires MB229.51, updated to MB229.52
_________________________
04Ford Explorer PUP 5W-30/Amsoil EaO
99MB CLK320 Redline 5W-30/Mahle
09 BMW X5 3.0i OEM 5W-30/OEM
11MB E350 Bluetec PP EuroL 5W-30/OEM

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#4436303 - 06/19/17 09:52 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: d00df00d]
IllinoisSparky Offline


Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 255
Loc: Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I think by "shear" you mean "high temperature/high shear (HTHS) viscosity." Probably best to clarify that, as "shear" is a process, not a spec.


Ooops. blush
Correct - referring to HTHS.
_________________________
04Ford Explorer PUP 5W-30/Amsoil EaO
99MB CLK320 Redline 5W-30/Mahle
09 BMW X5 3.0i OEM 5W-30/OEM
11MB E350 Bluetec PP EuroL 5W-30/OEM

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#4436304 - 06/19/17 09:52 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
WhizkidTN Offline


Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 491
Loc: E. Tennessee
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


Thanks d00df00d. More excellent info. You and QP have given me the info I was looking for. thumbsup
Bitog Derangement Syndrome has caused me to put all the oils for my various approvals into a spreadsheet to evaluate before purchases. smile


Wow, so I'm NOT the only one to do that in a spreadsheet - Cool!
_________________________
His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (71K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (66K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607

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#4436305 - 06/19/17 09:56 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: WhizkidTN]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 6921
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To add to what Quattro Pete said: Specs need to be taken together and considered in context.

For example: If I see a high VI, high HTHS viscosity, and low NOACK together, that suggests a really high-end base oil. If I see a high VI with a low HTHS viscosity and high NOACK, maybe not.

Another example: TBN is nice, but it usually comes with a higher sulfated ash percentage. In my car, I'd rather have the lower ash value than the higher TBN; my car burns oil by design, and lower ash generally means less deposit formation. I can compensate for the lower TBN by just changing my oil more frequently. If I had a car that didn't burn much oil, I might go in the opposite direction.


Thanks d00df00d. More excellent info. You and QP have given me the info I was looking for. thumbsup
Bitog Derangement Syndrome has caused me to put all the oils for my various approvals into a spreadsheet to evaluate before purchases. smile


Wow, so I'm NOT the only one to do that in a spreadsheet - Cool!


Yeah, I have used spreadsheets a couple of times for choosing oils.
Now with CK4 diesel oils, I may have another one coming up.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#4436306 - 06/19/17 10:00 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: OneEyeJack]
IllinoisSparky Offline


Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 255
Loc: Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Do you live someplace where pour point would be a consideration? And is API or ACEA Service Class a requirement as in keeping the warranty enforce?

For some these may not be at the top of the list but would be an absolute requirement when making a choice.



The Ford sits outside in winter, but temps below zero are rare.
Only the 2011 still has a warranty, and I am paranoid enough that I use MB228.52 5W-30, or an oil on the Mercedes Bevo site to be safe. thumbsup
_________________________
04Ford Explorer PUP 5W-30/Amsoil EaO
99MB CLK320 Redline 5W-30/Mahle
09 BMW X5 3.0i OEM 5W-30/OEM
11MB E350 Bluetec PP EuroL 5W-30/OEM

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#4436318 - 06/19/17 10:17 PM Re: Oil Specification priorities [Re: IllinoisSparky]
TexasVaquero Offline


Registered: 05/31/17
Posts: 127
Loc: South Texas Rancho
Any Mobil 1 oil would do.
_________________________
2014 NISSAN VERSA 5spd M/T- M1 EP 5w30 and M1 EP Filter. 5k OCI.
2011 CHEVY IMPALA 3.5ltrs - M1 HM 5w30 and M1 EP Filter. 3k OCI.

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