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#4433322 - 06/16/17 12:50 PM Engine downsizing comes with downside
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 11909
Loc: NH
Ward's

Quote:
Downsized turbocharged engines continue to grow in popularity because they offer impressive fuel efficiency and squeeze out the power. But there’s a downside.

Their high-compression nature in certain circumstances can damage engine parts, sometimes catastrophically, says Joachim Wagenblast, director of R&D-engine systems and components for engine supplier Mahle USA.

He cites broken piston rings, cracked off tops of pistons and bent connecting rods.

The culprit is called low-speed pre-ignition, or LSPI. It is an abnormal combustion phenomenon that occurs before the normal spark-plug ignition and is not widely known.


I've heard of LSPI here but not a lot of it. This article makes it sound like it's more widespread than I thought.

Quote:
Mahle says the need to address the issue is dire, especially because of the increasing popularity of downsized turbocharged engines that can be 30% smaller than their naturally aspirated equivalents.
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#4433336 - 06/16/17 12:57 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
Alfred_B Offline


Registered: 05/12/15
Posts: 1965
Loc: America
Electric cars will fix this issue.

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#4433343 - 06/16/17 01:04 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3965
Loc: New England
One way to help avoid LSPI in a DIT engine is to use oil that doesn't promote it.
dexos1 Gen 2 includes an LSPI test in a GM DIT engine and I will sure be looking for that license when it goes live in September. Interestingly enough, it looks like M1 5W30 AP already has a Gen 2 license number.
Here is a good thread that wemay started discussing LSPI and oil, there are more in the "Interesting Articles" forum.

Oronite on LSPI

dexos1 Gen 2 Licenses

BTW, I am interested in LSPI because my car was recalled for it...


Edited by Virtus_Probi (06/16/17 01:05 PM)
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#4433353 - 06/16/17 01:13 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29734
Loc: NY
Toss the problem at the oil companies for a fix. Why not?
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#4433364 - 06/16/17 01:23 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
Bamaro Offline


Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: Balto.
Whats the difference between LSPI and engine knock? shrug
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#4433365 - 06/16/17 01:24 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
meep Offline


Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 3548
Loc: Southeast
oil squirters, sodium valves---- get the heat out.... and DI can all help here.

turbocharging is not new--- I wonder what the mfrs are missing.
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#4433368 - 06/16/17 01:26 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
KGMtech Offline


Registered: 10/17/14
Posts: 964
Loc: SW Ontario Canada
Sounds like a Tier 1 parts supplier is crying over warranty claim issues. No news flash here that turbo charged engines are higher stressed.

That his name is Wagenblast; now that's ironic!


Edited by KGMtech (06/16/17 01:27 PM)
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#4433369 - 06/16/17 01:27 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: meep]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: meep

turbocharging is not new---


Just think - the 1987 Buick GNX (underrated at 276 hp from 231 cubes) was 30 YEARS ago!!!


Edited by Linctex (06/16/17 01:28 PM)
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#4433370 - 06/16/17 01:27 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: Bamaro]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1734
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Whats the difference between LSPI and engine knock? shrug

I don't remember the details, but LSPI is much more destructive. You can have low-level knocking for a while without completely destroying your engine, but as I understand it, on LSPI event often destroys a piston/ring/rod.
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#4433373 - 06/16/17 01:28 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: Linctex]
KGMtech Offline


Registered: 10/17/14
Posts: 964
Loc: SW Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: meep

turbocharging is not new---


Just think - the Buick GN-X was 30 YEARS ago!!!


Chevy Corvair Monza was even older.
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#4433376 - 06/16/17 01:30 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: KGMtech]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: KGMtech

Chevy Corvair Monza was even older.


But it was a little too early and under-engineered for the technology.

Modern turbocharged engines really need to have a computer involved in the management of fuel & ignition to make turbo work in everyday passenger cars. (racing is altogether a different scenario)
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#4433383 - 06/16/17 01:36 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: meep]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35834
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: meep
turbocharging is not new--- I wonder what the mfrs are missing.

Turbocharging is not new, but turbocharging with DI is relatively new, and that's where LSPI occurs...

https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
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#4433391 - 06/16/17 01:46 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1744
Loc: .
It's not like LSPI is news to engine makers. After a few, early missteps (e.g. Subaru), they seem to have the issue under control. Now the methods they've used to mitigate LSPI may have other consequences like fuel dilution and slightly decreased fuel economy, but we don't hear many horror stories about TGDI engine failures these days. For example, has anyone here heard of a serious mechanical problem with a Ford EcoBoost?

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#4433404 - 06/16/17 02:06 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: supton]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9090
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I think the 2.0L in the Cadillac ATS was prone to this, as it seemed to break pistons kind of irregularly, not related to how hard it was driven.
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#4433417 - 06/16/17 02:18 PM Re: Engine downsizing comes with downside [Re: Danh]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3965
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Danh
It's not like LSPI is news to engine makers. After a few, early missteps (e.g. Subaru), they seem to have the issue under control. Now the methods they've used to mitigate LSPI may have other consequences like fuel dilution and slightly decreased fuel economy, but we don't hear many horror stories about TGDI engine failures these days. For example, has anyone here heard of a serious mechanical problem with a Ford EcoBoost?


The Ecoboosts seem to have done quite well, but GM had a recall fairly recently for 1.5l DITs in Malibus. Note the very specific oil recommendations...

Malibu SPI Recall
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