US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics

Status
Not open for further replies.
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.
 
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


It must have been a LONG, long, long time since you've toured a coal burning power plant.

The way the coal is burned now is more similar to an oil burning furnace - - the coal is ground into fine dust (like flour) and "injected" with a jet of air.

Since the ash exits the flue (to a bagging house), there's actually nothing on the "floor" of the firebox chamber.
 
Now, you could use catalytic depolymerization to crack off all the light & medium molecules.

The remaining residue would likely be hard and brittle - that stuff could be pelletized, and possibly added to the incoming coal stream (and long as it could easily be powdered)
 
What do they do with the empty oil hugs? Throw them away? I thought the can next to the waste oil dump was a recycling can. Usually it's full with other containers and filters
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


It must have been a LONG, long, long time since you've toured a coal burning power plant.

The way the coal is burned now is more similar to an oil burning furnace - - the coal is ground into fine dust (like flour) and "injected" with a jet of air.

Since the ash exits the flue (to a bagging house), there's actually nothing on the "floor" of the firebox chamber.


I work as a welding technical consultant for a number of coal fired power plants in the Midwest. All of the ones I've seen have a "slag trap" on the downward sloping floor of the firebox. If this slag trap becomes clogged, the unburned slag will accumulate on the floor until it is 3-5-6 feet thick and force a maintenance shutdown of the boiler. It is then necessary to use manual labor and jackhammers to break it up (when cooled) and haul it out in wheelbarrows. This can take several days of around the clock labor.

Additionally, many plastics will give off toxins when burned; and a number of power plants have spent tens of millions of dollars retrofitting selected catalytic reducers, which use injected ammonia and ceramic catalysts to eliminate NOx emissions. I do not believe it possible to burn plastics and comply with EPA regulations. http://www.prairiestateenergycampus.com/ https://powergen.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/labadie-power-plant-st-louis-missouri/
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Now, you could use catalytic depolymerization to crack off all the light & medium molecules.

The remaining residue would likely be hard and brittle - that stuff could be pelletized, and possibly added to the incoming coal stream (and long as it could easily be powdered)


I apologize sir, I'm not quite on your intelligence level. Could you explain "catalytic depolymerization" in terms a fifth grader could understand? A "Selected Catalytic Reducer" which I mentioned, does basically the same thing for power plant emissions as the catalytic converter on your car....it takes in pollutants and converts them to carbon dioxide (the stuff we exhale) and water.
 
The small amounts of product residue in empty oil containers should no more preclude their entry into the recycling stream than the similar amounts found in empty detergent containers.
Laundry and dishwasher detergents are generally more toxic than virgin motor oil and post-consumer recycled plastics are not used for containers of edible products anyway since there is no way of knowing what might have been stored in the containers whatever they might have been filled with originally.
 
Apologies to the general public....If any of us had taken 5 minutes to read the OP link, this is about using plastics converted to DIESEL fuel...It has nothing to do with "power plant emissions."

"PTF facilities use pyrolysis, a process that converts post-use non-recycled plastics into liquid fuels and chemical feedstocks by heating them in the absence of oxygen. ANL assessed the potential energy and environmental benefits of converting non-recycled plastics into diesel using pyrolysis." https://www-4--traders-com.cdn.ampprojec...gy-H--24430914/

A number of posters here, including myself, have gone off half cocked without reading the link posted in the first place. I apologize for myself, others can take responsibility for their own actions; or we can continue to chase rabbits down the coal hole...
 
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I stil have a spout or two. LOL
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I still have a spout or two. LOL
NOoooooooooooooooooooooo paper cans. Plastics, the future is in plastics.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JTK
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I still have a spout or two. LOL
NOoooooooooooooooooooooo paper cans. Plastics, the future is in plastics.

Exactly. In the future there will be plastics. Everywhere. And nothing else.
 
Last edited:
for recycling though its not the toxicity. its thst the oil cant be washed off the plastic in the same manner as household plastic eithout the oil gumming up the system and creating a lot of oily water.

there are already recycling systems that can handle it, but once you throw in motor oil the cost and energy jumps up and it kills the project. to make it work the oil bottles need to be a separate stream and go through a water free recycling process. then the economics of getting the critical mass for a separate stream kick in and its hard to make it work with limited demand for the output product versus virgin product.

you maybe overestimating the complexity of the recycling process. basically its chop the bottle into pellets wash it and sell it. its not melt it down and refine and hydrocrack it with chemistry. that would be cost prohibitive.
 
Last edited:
i would think that other hydrocarbons in the bottles(oil) would get cracked too and just add to the output stream.
i figure the bigger issue would be the fancy labels.and possibly ink and cap seals.
 
I'm with you on the simplicity of the process.
What about cooking oil containers?
 
Should work fine for cooking oils too. As the video shows there would also be industrial fuel product and taken to extreme a coke product. Member Excslibur does this in a batch process at home.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3558138/Diesel_additive_package#Post3558138

Residual motor oil & cooking oil films, paper labels, inks, etc. shouldn't be a problem as far as I can see. When employed on an industrial scale, I reckon there'd be a hydrotreating step to saturate the diolefins to address the gum issues, which would also address organometallics.

The coke by-product if taken to completion could then be used in solid fuel poeer plants like so many jumped on here or metals smelting, the traditional use for coke.
 
Last edited:
I think it's marvelous idea, as is the work done by Excalibur.

I'll throw in some coal fired stuff, as I've been in the coal fired power industry since 1988...

The coke residue could theoretically be used, but we've burned petrocoke before as an admixture, burned fine, but we had to turn off the metal detectors in the coal stream...meant that tramp iron then got through and broke stuff...it worked, but had too many hairs on it.

Rubbish in the coal stream, as others have mentioned as a possibility isn't...the occasional coke bottle thrown on by a lazy miner gets caught in the pulverised fuel mill classifiers, and blocks them, requiring an operator to shut it down, get a permit and fish it out...partial load reduction.

If a coal power station co-fires waste, it must have licencing and pollution controls as if it was entirely a waste burning facility, and all of it's ash treated like waste ash (hazardous), which limits it's storage and ability to be sold into alternative markets.

Where the oil produced would be REALLY handy, is in ignition support.
* 250,000L to start a cold boiler
* 100,000L to start a warm/hot boiler
* 1,500 to 2,000 every time a PF mill is placed into service (5+ times per unit per day to follow load).
 
Plasticoke shouldn't have the metals found in petcoke. Petcoke contains all sorts of organometallic residue, primarily nickel & vanadium. It's legacy of petroleum once having been living matter, these substances being necessary for photosynthesis.
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
What do they do with the empty oil hugs? Throw them away? I thought the can next to the waste oil dump was a recycling can. Usually it's full with other containers and filters


Only California has a program for empty oil jug & bottle recycling from what I've been able to find. Disposal elsewhere is landfills.

Earth911 lists one scrap dealer in SA that takes plastic oil jugs & bottles, but it's nowhere near my house. So I've been saving mine until I get several sacks full before driving over there and seeing what the details are. They could be thrown in cement kilns like medical waste, which is my guess with all the cement plants in this area.
 
Last edited:
I know we are talking about plastic, but the abbreviation on the main screen for me reads
"US Government on Crack.."
It made me laugh. Now we can keep talking about plastic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top