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#4428250 - 06/11/17 02:39 AM US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2327
Loc: San Antonio, TX
US Govt. agrees cracking non-recyclable plastics to fuels via pyrolisis makes sense. Maybe they'll hire experienced BITOG members like Excalibur for such operations? I think that would be a great use of plastic motor oil jugs & bottles, ATF jugs & bottles, plastic gear oil containers, etc.

https://www-4--traders-com.cdn.ampprojec...gy-H--24430914/
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#4428282 - 06/11/17 06:14 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
umungus1122 Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 1063
Loc: PA
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.
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#4428324 - 06/11/17 07:51 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: umungus1122]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


It must have been a LONG, long, long time since you've toured a coal burning power plant.

The way the coal is burned now is more similar to an oil burning furnace - - the coal is ground into fine dust (like flour) and "injected" with a jet of air.

Since the ash exits the flue (to a bagging house), there's actually nothing on the "floor" of the firebox chamber.
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#4428326 - 06/11/17 07:53 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Now, you could use catalytic depolymerization to crack off all the light & medium molecules.

The remaining residue would likely be hard and brittle - that stuff could be pelletized, and possibly added to the incoming coal stream (and long as it could easily be powdered)
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#4428344 - 06/11/17 08:26 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 4858
Loc: Houston, Texas
What do they do with the empty oil hugs? Throw them away? I thought the can next to the waste oil dump was a recycling can. Usually it's full with other containers and filters
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#4428346 - 06/11/17 08:27 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Linctex]
Ihatetochangeoil Offline


Registered: 10/28/14
Posts: 580
Loc: On the road Midwest
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


It must have been a LONG, long, long time since you've toured a coal burning power plant.

The way the coal is burned now is more similar to an oil burning furnace - - the coal is ground into fine dust (like flour) and "injected" with a jet of air.

Since the ash exits the flue (to a bagging house), there's actually nothing on the "floor" of the firebox chamber.


I work as a welding technical consultant for a number of coal fired power plants in the Midwest. All of the ones I've seen have a "slag trap" on the downward sloping floor of the firebox. If this slag trap becomes clogged, the unburned slag will accumulate on the floor until it is 3-5-6 feet thick and force a maintenance shutdown of the boiler. It is then necessary to use manual labor and jackhammers to break it up (when cooled) and haul it out in wheelbarrows. This can take several days of around the clock labor.

Additionally, many plastics will give off toxins when burned; and a number of power plants have spent tens of millions of dollars retrofitting selected catalytic reducers, which use injected ammonia and ceramic catalysts to eliminate NOx emissions. I do not believe it possible to burn plastics and comply with EPA regulations. http://www.prairiestateenergycampus.com/ https://powergen.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/labadie-power-plant-st-louis-missouri/
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#4428351 - 06/11/17 08:33 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Linctex]
Ihatetochangeoil Offline


Registered: 10/28/14
Posts: 580
Loc: On the road Midwest
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Now, you could use catalytic depolymerization to crack off all the light & medium molecules.

The remaining residue would likely be hard and brittle - that stuff could be pelletized, and possibly added to the incoming coal stream (and long as it could easily be powdered)


I apologize sir, I'm not quite on your intelligence level. Could you explain "catalytic depolymerization" in terms a fifth grader could understand? A "Selected Catalytic Reducer" which I mentioned, does basically the same thing for power plant emissions as the catalytic converter on your car....it takes in pollutants and converts them to carbon dioxide (the stuff we exhale) and water.
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#4428361 - 06/11/17 08:46 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15702
Loc: OH
The small amounts of product residue in empty oil containers should no more preclude their entry into the recycling stream than the similar amounts found in empty detergent containers.
Laundry and dishwasher detergents are generally more toxic than virgin motor oil and post-consumer recycled plastics are not used for containers of edible products anyway since there is no way of knowing what might have been stored in the containers whatever they might have been filled with originally.
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#4428362 - 06/11/17 08:49 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
Ihatetochangeoil Offline


Registered: 10/28/14
Posts: 580
Loc: On the road Midwest
Apologies to the general public....If any of us had taken 5 minutes to read the OP link, this is about using plastics converted to DIESEL fuel...It has nothing to do with "power plant emissions."

"PTF facilities use pyrolysis, a process that converts post-use non-recycled plastics into liquid fuels and chemical feedstocks by heating them in the absence of oxygen. ANL assessed the potential energy and environmental benefits of converting non-recycled plastics into diesel using pyrolysis." https://www-4--traders-com.cdn.ampprojec...gy-H--24430914/

A number of posters here, including myself, have gone off half cocked without reading the link posted in the first place. I apologize for myself, others can take responsibility for their own actions; or we can continue to chase rabbits down the coal hole...
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#4428372 - 06/11/17 09:12 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 10587
Loc: Buffalo, NY
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I stil have a spout or two. LOL
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#4428396 - 06/11/17 09:37 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: JTK]
CT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10988
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: JTK
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I still have a spout or two. LOL
NOoooooooooooooooooooooo paper cans. Plastics, the future is in plastics.
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#4428443 - 06/11/17 10:25 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: CT8]
Dyusik Offline


Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 1984
Loc: US-WA
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JTK
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I still have a spout or two. LOL
NOoooooooooooooooooooooo paper cans. Plastics, the future is in plastics.

Exactly. In the future there will be plastics. Everywhere. And nothing else.


Edited by Dyusik (06/11/17 10:25 AM)
Edit Reason: Autocorrect
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#4428450 - 06/11/17 10:32 AM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: fdcg27]
raytseng Online   content


Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 2340
Loc: CA
for recycling though its not the toxicity. its thst the oil cant be washed off the plastic in the same manner as household plastic eithout the oil gumming up the system and creating a lot of oily water.

there are already recycling systems that can handle it, but once you throw in motor oil the cost and energy jumps up and it kills the project. to make it work the oil bottles need to be a separate stream and go through a water free recycling process. then the economics of getting the critical mass for a separate stream kick in and its hard to make it work with limited demand for the output product versus virgin product.

you maybe overestimating the complexity of the recycling process. basically its chop the bottle into pellets wash it and sell it. its not melt it down and refine and hydrocrack it with chemistry. that would be cost prohibitive.


Edited by raytseng (06/11/17 10:43 AM)

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#4428732 - 06/11/17 04:51 PM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha]
kc8adu Offline


Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 894
Loc: dayton oh
i would think that other hydrocarbons in the bottles(oil) would get cracked too and just add to the output stream.
i figure the bigger issue would be the fancy labels.and possibly ink and cap seals.

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#4428736 - 06/11/17 05:00 PM Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: raytseng]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15702
Loc: OH
I'm with you on the simplicity of the process.
What about cooking oil containers?
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