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US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics #4428250
06/11/17 02:39 AM
06/11/17 02:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,741
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline OP
Nyogtha  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,741
San Antonio, TX
US Govt. agrees cracking non-recyclable plastics to fuels via pyrolisis makes sense. Maybe they'll hire experienced BITOG members like Excalibur for such operations? I think that would be a great use of plastic motor oil jugs & bottles, ATF jugs & bottles, plastic gear oil containers, etc.

https://www-4--traders-com.cdn.ampprojec...gy-H--24430914/


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428282
06/11/17 06:14 AM
06/11/17 06:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,161
PA
umungus1122 Online content
umungus1122  Online Content

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,161
PA
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


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Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: umungus1122] #4428324
06/11/17 07:51 AM
06/11/17 07:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,038
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,038
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


It must have been a LONG, long, long time since you've toured a coal burning power plant.

The way the coal is burned now is more similar to an oil burning furnace - - the coal is ground into fine dust (like flour) and "injected" with a jet of air.

Since the ash exits the flue (to a bagging house), there's actually nothing on the "floor" of the firebox chamber.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428326
06/11/17 07:53 AM
06/11/17 07:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,038
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,038
Waco, TX
Now, you could use catalytic depolymerization to crack off all the light & medium molecules.

The remaining residue would likely be hard and brittle - that stuff could be pelletized, and possibly added to the incoming coal stream (and long as it could easily be powdered)


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428344
06/11/17 08:26 AM
06/11/17 08:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,221
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline
motor_oil_madman  Offline

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,221
Houston, Texas
What do they do with the empty oil hugs? Throw them away? I thought the can next to the waste oil dump was a recycling can. Usually it's full with other containers and filters


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Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Linctex] #4428346
06/11/17 08:27 AM
06/11/17 08:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 609
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 609
On the road Midwest
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Use it as fuel definitely- grab a claw full and drop it into the burning coal at a coal fired plant.


It must have been a LONG, long, long time since you've toured a coal burning power plant.

The way the coal is burned now is more similar to an oil burning furnace - - the coal is ground into fine dust (like flour) and "injected" with a jet of air.

Since the ash exits the flue (to a bagging house), there's actually nothing on the "floor" of the firebox chamber.


I work as a welding technical consultant for a number of coal fired power plants in the Midwest. All of the ones I've seen have a "slag trap" on the downward sloping floor of the firebox. If this slag trap becomes clogged, the unburned slag will accumulate on the floor until it is 3-5-6 feet thick and force a maintenance shutdown of the boiler. It is then necessary to use manual labor and jackhammers to break it up (when cooled) and haul it out in wheelbarrows. This can take several days of around the clock labor.

Additionally, many plastics will give off toxins when burned; and a number of power plants have spent tens of millions of dollars retrofitting selected catalytic reducers, which use injected ammonia and ceramic catalysts to eliminate NOx emissions. I do not believe it possible to burn plastics and comply with EPA regulations. http://www.prairiestateenergycampus.com/ https://powergen.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/labadie-power-plant-st-louis-missouri/


Whatever
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Linctex] #4428351
06/11/17 08:33 AM
06/11/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 609
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 609
On the road Midwest
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Now, you could use catalytic depolymerization to crack off all the light & medium molecules.

The remaining residue would likely be hard and brittle - that stuff could be pelletized, and possibly added to the incoming coal stream (and long as it could easily be powdered)


I apologize sir, I'm not quite on your intelligence level. Could you explain "catalytic depolymerization" in terms a fifth grader could understand? A "Selected Catalytic Reducer" which I mentioned, does basically the same thing for power plant emissions as the catalytic converter on your car....it takes in pollutants and converts them to carbon dioxide (the stuff we exhale) and water.


Whatever
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428361
06/11/17 08:46 AM
06/11/17 08:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,483
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,483
OH
The small amounts of product residue in empty oil containers should no more preclude their entry into the recycling stream than the similar amounts found in empty detergent containers.
Laundry and dishwasher detergents are generally more toxic than virgin motor oil and post-consumer recycled plastics are not used for containers of edible products anyway since there is no way of knowing what might have been stored in the containers whatever they might have been filled with originally.


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Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428362
06/11/17 08:49 AM
06/11/17 08:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 609
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 609
On the road Midwest
Apologies to the general public....If any of us had taken 5 minutes to read the OP link, this is about using plastics converted to DIESEL fuel...It has nothing to do with "power plant emissions."

"PTF facilities use pyrolysis, a process that converts post-use non-recycled plastics into liquid fuels and chemical feedstocks by heating them in the absence of oxygen. ANL assessed the potential energy and environmental benefits of converting non-recycled plastics into diesel using pyrolysis." https://www-4--traders-com.cdn.ampprojec...gy-H--24430914/

A number of posters here, including myself, have gone off half cocked without reading the link posted in the first place. I apologize for myself, others can take responsibility for their own actions; or we can continue to chase rabbits down the coal hole...


Whatever
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428372
06/11/17 09:12 AM
06/11/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,240
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,240
Buffalo, NY
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I stil have a spout or two. LOL


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: JTK] #4428396
06/11/17 09:37 AM
06/11/17 09:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,319
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,319
Canyon County Idaho
Originally Posted By: JTK
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I still have a spout or two. LOL
NOoooooooooooooooooooooo paper cans. Plastics, the future is in plastics.


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2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: CT8] #4428443
06/11/17 10:25 AM
06/11/17 10:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,207
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,207
US-WA
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JTK
The writeup and youtube videos look nice, but once you figure in the energy and resources needed, plus what's off-gassed in the process, it's not so green after all. Bring back the cardboard cans with metal end caps. Pretty sure I still have a spout or two. LOL
NOoooooooooooooooooooooo paper cans. Plastics, the future is in plastics.

Exactly. In the future there will be plastics. Everywhere. And nothing else.

Last edited by Dyusik; 06/11/17 10:25 AM. Reason: Autocorrect

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Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: fdcg27] #4428450
06/11/17 10:32 AM
06/11/17 10:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,408
CA
raytseng Offline
raytseng  Offline

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,408
CA
for recycling though its not the toxicity. its thst the oil cant be washed off the plastic in the same manner as household plastic eithout the oil gumming up the system and creating a lot of oily water.

there are already recycling systems that can handle it, but once you throw in motor oil the cost and energy jumps up and it kills the project. to make it work the oil bottles need to be a separate stream and go through a water free recycling process. then the economics of getting the critical mass for a separate stream kick in and its hard to make it work with limited demand for the output product versus virgin product.

you maybe overestimating the complexity of the recycling process. basically its chop the bottle into pellets wash it and sell it. its not melt it down and refine and hydrocrack it with chemistry. that would be cost prohibitive.

Last edited by raytseng; 06/11/17 10:43 AM.
Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: Nyogtha] #4428732
06/11/17 04:51 PM
06/11/17 04:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 928
dayton oh
kc8adu Offline
kc8adu  Offline

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 928
dayton oh
i would think that other hydrocarbons in the bottles(oil) would get cracked too and just add to the output stream.
i figure the bigger issue would be the fancy labels.and possibly ink and cap seals.

Re: US Government on Cracking Non-recyclable Plastics [Re: raytseng] #4428736
06/11/17 05:00 PM
06/11/17 05:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,483
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,483
OH
I'm with you on the simplicity of the process.
What about cooking oil containers?


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