Prius burns oil, how to prevent from happening?

[TheKracken]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
If you care about lubrication and possible ring-wear and ring-coking issues in Prius, you might also want to rethink the oil filter. I'm not claiming it has anything to do with it but the Thailand-made Toyota/Denso oil-filter cartridges and canisters have very poor efficiency and filtration -- much worse than any aftermarket oil filter out there. See the discussions in the oil-filter threads.


Hmm...interesting. I already have a case of 10 of the OEM filters but I can always run some better filters for fun. These canister type filters do not have a lot of aftermarket options.

 

[jj51702]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
If you care about lubrication and possible ring-wear and ring-coking issues in Prius, you might also want to rethink the oil filter. I'm not claiming it has anything to do with it but the Thailand-made Toyota/Denso oil-filter cartridges and canisters have very poor efficiency and filtration -- much worse than any aftermarket oil filter out there. See the discussions in the oil-filter threads.


If toyota is confident in their "poor efficiency and filtration" of these filters and put their name on it why should I doubt them? How many automobiles have you designed and engineered since we should take your advice over theirs?

 

[CELICA_XX]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken
I want to know how to prevent the oil burning from starting? It is a pretty common issue on these vehicles and tends to just get progressively.


I have the same car as you, with half the mileage... Purchased new and it doesn't burn anything.

As far as trying to PREVENT oil issues, I would stay on top of maintenance and maybe change at 7500 as opposed to 10k.

If you notice some burning try switching to MaxLife full synthetic. I can't believe how much success I've had with this oil.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
If you care about lubrication and possible ring-wear and ring-coking issues in Prius, you might also want to rethink the oil filter. I'm not claiming it has anything to do with it but the Thailand-made Toyota/Denso oil-filter cartridges and canisters have very poor efficiency and filtration -- much worse than any aftermarket oil filter out there. See the discussions in the oil-filter threads.

Hmm...interesting. I already have a case of 10 of the OEM filters but I can always run some better filters for fun. These canister type filters do not have a lot of aftermarket options.

I've run exclusively Toyota/Denso OEM filters in the last 15+ years or so, both canister and cartridge, except for the current OCI. They used to be made in USA a while back before they changed them to Thailand.

They work. It's just that they sacrifice a lot efficiency and filtration in exchange of longer oil-filter life.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fpracha
*CAUTION CAUTION*
Note... M1 & TGMO are similar base oils & chemistry,
BUT Redline is ester oils & chemistry to suit ester formulations... While Amsoil is entirely different from Redline formula !
PLS BE CAREFUL. thanks!

I see he clarified it was RLI, Renewable Lubricants Inc., which is what I thought, but the concern is still the same. Some would argue that Amsoil, Red Line, and RLI are all too much money, or not provide enough of a benefit. Whether that is or isn't the case isn't terribly important. I'd stick with them unadulterated.

TheKracken: Following my upcoming suggestion won't be free, but it seems you're not afraid of premium products. You may wish to speak to Terry Dyson. He has some experience with RLI in certain problematic cases.

 

[TheKracken]

Originally Posted By: Garak

I see he clarified it was RLI, Renewable Lubricants Inc., which is what I thought, but the concern is still the same. Some would argue that Amsoil, Red Line, and RLI are all too much money, or not provide enough of a benefit. Whether that is or isn't the case isn't terribly important. I'd stick with them unadulterated.

TheKracken: Following my upcoming suggestion won't be free, but it seems you're not afraid of premium products. You may wish to speak to Terry Dyson. He has some experience with RLI in certain problematic cases.


I wasn't sure if UOA's (though I believe Terry typically goes much further into the analysis than others) would possibly show me reason why oil burning may start happening but I will contact him and see how that goes, his services are supposed to be pretty good.

I only really have all of this premium products because I find it on sale (5 gallons of RLI for 70$) but most of my stock is 5w20 ( I had only cars speced at 5w30 until I upgraded to the newer prius). So one of my main concerns is running 5w20 instead of 0w20 in a stop start motor. I have plenty of 0w20 as well but it would be nice to run 5w20

 

[Redpatches]

Ditto the M1 Extended 0W-20 and Fram ToughGuard once a year

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken
I wasn't sure if UOA's (though I believe Terry typically goes much further into the analysis than others) would possibly show me reason why oil burning may start happening but I will contact him and see how that goes, his services are supposed to be pretty good.

He may not know the cause, but sometimes he has made some recommendations that have at least helped.

$70 for 5 gallons of the stuff is hard to beat.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken
... These canister type filters do not have a lot of aftermarket options.
?? There are at least a dozen brands made to fit your car, some of which offer multiple models at different price levels, not even counting all the dubious obscure Chinese brands. The least expensive ones I found on-line are the Thai Toyota kind.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
If you care about lubrication and possible ring-wear and ring-coking issues in Prius, you might also want to rethink the oil filter. I'm not claiming it has anything to do with it but the Thailand-made Toyota/Denso oil-filter cartridges and canisters have very poor efficiency and filtration -- much worse than any aftermarket oil filter out there. See the discussions in the oil-filter threads.


In my professional experience, you need 0.5um to get varnish and sludge precursors out of oil...so I don't think the incredibly poor choices that Toyota are alleged to have med in filter technology are going to help/hinder here.

I'm still at a loss how the company that makes the best engine, and the absolute best engine oil hands down messed up so badly on their filter.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
...you might also want to rethink the oil filter.

Read correctly, this refers to a smaller filter size, possibly leading to shorter filter change intervals,right?

If yes, then varnish/sludge may not be relevant to this discussion.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
In my professional experience, you need 0.5um to get varnish and sludge precursors out of oil...so I don't think the incredibly poor choices that Toyota are alleged to have med in filter technology are going to help/hinder here.

Is it really so important to have sub-micron filtration of automotive engine oils?
Do you know how long it takes (miles/kms or hours) to reach varnish/sludge deposition tendencies?
Otherwise the oil would be drained after a normal oci is reached and not require such fine oil filtration.

 

[Shannow]

"Loading up" any sized oil filter in an automobile engine that has any semblance of a normal maintenance regime, and is mechanically sound is farcical and I made those points in the "undersized filter" threads.

The bit of Gokhan's post that you didn't quote (how can you "read correctly" by eliminating detail and heading in a different direction ?) was referring to ring coking, ring wear, and oil filters...If you need a filter to prevent ring coking, then you need sub micron.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
"Loading up" any sized oil filter in an automobile engine that has any semblance of a normal maintenance regime, and is mechanically sound is farcical and I made those points in the "undersized filter" threads.

The bit of Gokhan's post that you didn't quote (how can you "read correctly" by eliminating detail and heading in a different direction ?) was referring to ring coking, ring wear, and oil filters...If you need a filter to prevent ring coking, then you need sub micron.

I did not disagree with you nor with Gokhan.
But unless extended intervals are involved without backing up with timely monitoring (oil analysis) and in addition the oil quality (the overall formulation) is subject to question, a submicron filter's protection will not even come into play !

*Timely monitoring must be pertinent to engine concerned and driving style (usage pattern).
In essence the oil quality is the primary driver in attempts to avoid or minimize coking&wear at the rings surfaces.
If the driving style is forcing rings coking conditions to prevail predominantly , then sub micron filter helps critically. This is not always the case and you know it as well or better than the less technically experienced crowd.

Speculative use of extreme fine filtration is costly; moreover it requires modifications/additions to engine bay , as you know such filter option is not offered as standard feature by auto makers.

 

[fpracha]

All in all I would much prefer if sub micron filters are included as a standard feature in today's cars, possibly as a super long life bypass filtration, considering their prices are always going up and this area remains neglected for improvements during last 30 years.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Toyota has such a problem with oil burning- for decades. It makes me really happy to know that you will continue to reward this behavior. Awesome

 

[TheKracken]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Toyota has such a problem with oil burning- for decades. It makes me really happy to know that you will continue to reward this behavior. Awesome


I am assuming you are being sarcastic...but toyota has consistently been the most reliable brand for me. My prius only needed tires and oil changes. Oh and the OEM breaks lasted until 225k miles with lots of city driving.

My other toyotas have been amazingly reliable as well.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Toyota has such a problem with oil burning- for decades. It makes me really happy to know that you will continue to reward this behavior. Awesome


I am assuming you are being sarcastic...but toyota has consistently been the most reliable brand for me. My prius only needed tires and oil changes. Oh and the OEM breaks lasted until 225k miles with lots of city driving.

My other toyotas have been amazingly reliable as well.


Yea, Peter, get with the program.

If a Chrysler or GM product burns oil it is considered a liability.
If a Toyota or Honda burns oil it is considered a reliability.

Ed

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken
My prius only needed tires and oil changes. Oh and the OEM breaks lasted until 225k miles with lots of city driving.

Wow 225k miles.. that's unbelievable achievement.. how were you so incredibly careful when braking, and what did Toyota dealer say when you serviced the OEM brakes ?

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: edhackett

If a Honda burns oil it is considered a reliability.

Ed


Actually, with the first OLM cars, I would call this completely normal.

 

[TheKracken]

Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
My prius only needed tires and oil changes. Oh and the OEM breaks lasted until 225k miles with lots of city driving.

Wow 225k miles.. that's unbelievable achievement.. how were you so incredibly careful when braking, and what did Toyota dealer say when you serviced the OEM brakes ?


The prius uses a regenerative breaking system, it only uses the friction breaks (this applies to the gen 2) under 7mph and for emergency breaking.

I also utilize hypermilling techniques for the best mpg and this often means attempting to coast to a stop as best as possible without the use of the breaks.