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Welders, help! Vise repair advice. #4417490
05/29/17 07:02 PM
05/29/17 07:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Bandito440 Offline OP
Bandito440  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
I picked up an old Charles Parker vise as part of a lot of tools. I believe it's a model 995 from about 1920. It weighs more than 100 lbs and has 5" jaws.

One of the jaws is broken. I'd really like to salvage it rather than sell it for parts or scrap it.

Expert welders and machinists, is this repairable?



'14 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel
Rotella T6 5w-40 & OEM filter
Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417505
05/29/17 07:18 PM
05/29/17 07:18 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,054
North Carolina
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,054
North Carolina
Pm Tig1


13 elantra 70k 5w30 QSUD
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Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417509
05/29/17 07:21 PM
05/29/17 07:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Do you have the broken off piece?

The appearance of the grain structure at the break tells you that this is cast material.

Yes; it is repairable.

Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Ihatetochangeoil] #4417511
05/29/17 07:22 PM
05/29/17 07:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Bandito440 Offline OP
Bandito440  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Do you have the broken off piece?

I do. It's still pinned to the jaw.


'14 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel
Rotella T6 5w-40 & OEM filter
Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417514
05/29/17 07:26 PM
05/29/17 07:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,758
Upstate NY
Looks like cast iron vs steel.

You will need to find someone who can weld cast iron and not screw it up.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
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Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417523
05/29/17 07:31 PM
05/29/17 07:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
If it is cast steel, you can use standard welding techniques; clean the material (with a grinder), bevel the edges almost fully, preheat to ~200F, use low hydrogen electrodes, it will have to be remachined or very carefully ground when finished.

You can find out if it is cast steel or cast iron by attempting to weld with low hydrogen (steel) electrodes on the open blank end of the piece and see what happens. If E7018 electrodes will lay a nice bead, it is cast steel.

Cast iron is a little harder to work with, but by no means impossible.

Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Ihatetochangeoil] #4417526
05/29/17 07:33 PM
05/29/17 07:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,323
Toronna
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,323
Toronna
That's not the most uncommon vise out there, check out the garage journal's vise parts swap thread. I think you could find a new dynamic jaw for that if you had time to wait. I collect vises and I would never buy one that is broken or welded unless for parts.

Last edited by maxdustington; 05/29/17 07:35 PM.

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Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417529
05/29/17 07:34 PM
05/29/17 07:34 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 105
Pittsburgh, Pa
Fastcompany Offline
Fastcompany  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 105
Pittsburgh, Pa
I agree looks cast it will need tight welded with cast rods or it can be stick welded. Either way it will be brittle there unless possibly stress relieved by shot peening. The vise will also need pre heated due to it's size to get full penatration. Sand blast the area to be repaired and soak it down in acetone. Literally if you could soak the damged portion in it that would be great at pulling all the old grease and oil out of it. Someone can weld it the better prep you do the better the odds the well will work.

Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Fastcompany] #4417574
05/29/17 08:12 PM
05/29/17 08:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Originally Posted By: Fastcompany
I agree looks cast it will need tight welded with cast rods or it can be stick welded. Either way it will be brittle there unless possibly stress relieved by shot peening. The vise will also need pre heated due to it's size to get full penatration. Sand blast the area to be repaired and soak it down in acetone. Literally if you could soak the damged portion in it that would be great at pulling all the old grease and oil out of it. Someone can weld it the better prep you do the better the odds the well will work.


This is a bunch of hogwash. Stress relief is done in industrial ovens; not shot peening. AWS D1.1 Structural Welding Code has a preheat chart depending upon material and thickness. HEAT will remove old grease and oil out of the pieces. Warm it until it smokes, let it cool, repeat if necessary. Oil will cook off at less than 500F, the steel won't begin to stress relieve until about 1100F. Sandblasting will embed Silicon into the material and is not necessary. Some State Highway bridges are welded with 7018; it is NOT brittle unless not properly preheated. The PURPOSE of preheat is not to "get full penetration," it is to broaden and soften the grain structure and make the final product more ductile (less brittle). Depth of penetration is how deep you grind a bevel in order to lay a bead of weld.

AWS has no prequalified welding procedures for full penetration welding without using either backgrinding, backgouging, or a backing bar. The way you obtain a full penetration weld is to deeply grind a 30 degree bevel on both pieces (60 degree) included angle, then weld up the bevel, then turn the piece over and grind or arc gouge into the BACK side until the line of fusion disappears and you are into the first layer of weld material. THEN you weld up the second side, cleaning all slag and wire brushing between passes to assure there is no foreign material other than weld material in the joint.

Per Code, allowable stress on a full penetration weld is the same stress as the base material. That is why industry usually performs X ray or Ultrasonic (volumetric) inspection on full pen welds.

Cast Iron is a different animal: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/sup...ron-detail.aspx

Regardless of material involved, this vise is repairable almost to the point of a machinist not being able to tell it was repaired. When a quality weld job is completed, then repaint the vise. The only evidence of a repair will be the grinding marks on the welded area, which could then be sandblasted away and painted.

AWS Certified Welder and Certified Welding Inspector.



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Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417628
05/29/17 09:06 PM
05/29/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
Welding a broken piece on a cast iron vise is not wise. I have welded a lot of cast iron, but welding a broken vise is some what dangerous. Scrape it. I doubt this is cast steel. I can tell by the color of the spark that comes off a grinding wheel. A dull red indicates cast iron of some sort. A bright spark could mean it's steel.
and would be very weld able with some pre-heat and proper chamfering.

Last edited by tig1; 05/29/17 09:11 PM.

2007 Ford Fusion 232,000 miles
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M1 0-20 EP
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Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417649
05/29/17 09:30 PM
05/29/17 09:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
That part is in COMPRESSION, not tension.

It is broken because of abuse, not proper use!

I would preheat it like crazy and braze it with brass.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Linctex] #4417688
05/29/17 10:08 PM
05/29/17 10:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Bandito440 Offline OP
Bandito440  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Originally Posted By: Linctex
That part is in COMPRESSION, not tension.

It is broken because of abuse, not proper use!

I would preheat it like crazy and braze it with brass.


Be nice to the old gal. She's been wailed on for a century.


'14 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel
Rotella T6 5w-40 & OEM filter
Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Linctex] #4417693
05/29/17 10:22 PM
05/29/17 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Linctex
That part is in COMPRESSION, not tension.

It is broken because of abuse, not proper use!

I would preheat it like crazy and braze it with brass.



With a vise, brazing won't hold longer than a snow ball in a fire barrel. Scrap it.


2007 Ford Fusion 232,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 55K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: tig1] #4417726
05/30/17 12:16 AM
05/30/17 12:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Linctex
That part is in COMPRESSION, not tension.


With a vise, brazing won't hold longer than a snow ball in a fire barrel. Scrap it.


I think you missed that part...........

It's pretty durn obvious that damage is due to abuse ONLY.

Last edited by Linctex; 05/30/17 12:17 AM.

"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Welders, help! Vise repair advice. [Re: Bandito440] #4417828
05/30/17 07:12 AM
05/30/17 07:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,357
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,357
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Its scrap.


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