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#4413978 - 05/25/17 11:26 AM Old record players
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
So a few years ago (sometime in 2014) I purchased an open box special from Future Shop/Best Buy, which was a DENON DP-200USB belt-driven turntable with USB. Of course being open box, somebody stole the belt off of it and since I don't have many records it sat until recently when I finally got around to getting DENON to send me a replacement belt, which they did for free.

However, hooked up, the player skipped on a brand new Metallica - Master of Puppets LP. It did not skip on the old British import of LOAD that I had however. Upon doing some research on this issue, it appeared that this player is in fact a commodity unit manufactured by a 3rd party and rebranded by DENON and a few others as an entry-level style offering. It lacks configurable auto-skate or counterweighting, which left me with zero upgradability and a bit PO'd at myself for not looking into this before buying it.

Got searching Kijiji and E-Bay and eventually found an Aurex (Toshiba) SR-Q200, which is a direct drive quartz-locking turntable and looked quite appealing, so I drove out and picked it up last night. Put the skipping LP on it and it played perfectly, and also sounded massively better playing both albums, despite just having the stock ancient Aurex cartridge in it (which looks a whole heck of a lot like a Rega 100).

Now, I'm no audiophile or anything, but there is definitely something to be said for the difference between digital and vinyl. The highs, particularly the cymbals, sound noticeably different.

Now, I know you can spend obscene amounts of money on a record player. A buddy of mine has a custom built unit that is one of those. I can't justify that for my listening purposes. So for those of you who listen to records, how many of you are rocking old girls like this one and what is your setup?
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#4413995 - 05/25/17 11:48 AM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
I'm trying to get a Nam era PX purchased sansui 2040 going. No Time this year too busy at work. Belts are 50 cents at supply houses.

In the 80's Had an AR new with LV-X arm and grado green, Hafler preamp then a Yamaha MC cart. Not too shabby. But the best sound was with a Thorens with a Grace F9e. BELT drive all. NUDE diamond styli with modified elliptical or better are needed to get the best out of inner grooves and HF modulation. Listen to some you tube video on headphones and HD resolution(still compressed but better), Like HiFisquarepants.

You need a GREAT phono preamp too. I had a conord-johnson tube unit, but a re-capped SAE Mk I will sound good.. Anything designed by James Bonjiorno (SUMO, early SAE). There is silly expensive audio stuff out there still.



Edited by ARCOgraphite (05/25/17 11:49 AM)
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#4414004 - 05/25/17 11:58 AM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
FordBroncoVWJeta Online   content


Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 769
Loc: KS
I purchased one of the new Sony turntables. I had no idea what I was getting into. The person wanted $5 for a $120 turntable. That was my freshman year of highschool. I just graduated last week. Now I have almost every Rolling Stones album, bunch of Boston albums and a ton more. I love the sound of Vinyl. It just sounds so much better vs digital.
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#4414014 - 05/25/17 12:06 PM Re: Old record players [Re: ARCOgraphite]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

You need a GREAT phono preamp too. I had a conord-johnson tube unit, but a re-capped SAE Mk I will sound good.. Anything designed by James Bonjiorno (SUMO, early SAE). There is silly expensive audio stuff out there still.



Surprisingly, the stock pre-amp in my DENON AVR X4200W is pretty decent. However, I also have a PS Audio preamp here that I could use to compare with.
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#4414039 - 05/25/17 12:45 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
Schmoe Offline


Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 7256
Loc: Oklahoma
LP's have a better dynamic range than digital. Back in the 80's, you'd use a phono with a range enhancer like the Pioneer RG-2, I have 2 of them, or run it through a dBx system, but that got expensive quickly and you couldn't record on to tape with it unless you had a decoder, a lot like the Dolby a/b and c's. Not all LP's are created equal. Some will have deeper grooves than others. I suspect that your Metallica LP wasn't very deep, hence the skipping. You also could have added a little more weight to the stylus by adjusting the arm or putting a light weight on top of the stylus assembly. The best turntables in the 70's and 80's were belt driven, because, that's all they had, but then came the electric driven turntables late 80's and on. Electric turntables offered two things, less wow and flutter (vibrations if you will) and longevity. Belts stretched, grew in size depending on the temperature and/or simply wore out.
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#4414046 - 05/25/17 12:54 PM Re: Old record players [Re: Schmoe]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
You also could have added a little more weight to the stylus by adjusting the arm or putting a light weight on top of the stylus assembly.


Unfortunately the arm on the unit has no adjustment, that's one of the reasons I dumped it for this better unit.
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#4414054 - 05/25/17 01:05 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 18173
Loc: Dallas,Tx USA
I have this one. A Realistic Lab-440 with a Shure cartridge.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/realistic-lab-440-tell-me-about-it.184588/
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#4414078 - 05/25/17 01:30 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
Pop_Rivit Offline


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 6367
Loc: Midwest
After years of listening to LPs on our Thorens TD 124 it's hard to listen to the tinny sound that passes for digital music.

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#4414138 - 05/25/17 02:34 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 7162
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I also had a Thorens TD124, for 25 years.

I now use a Technics 1210 (1200 series) MK5. It's the proper answer. They are built incredibly well, with very high grade components. While DJ's and others use these for shows, they do so because they are so good and completely trouble free. But we must remember that the 1200 series was not built for DJ's. They are simply that robust.

Audiophiles will claim that ProJect makes better turntables. BALONEY. They don't. They only cost more.

The 1200 series is capable of anything you need, and can be found every day on craigslist, in great condition for around $300.

FWIW, a new "real" 1200 series is $1900-$3000.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-technics-sl-1200mk2-turntable


Edited by Cujet (05/25/17 02:34 PM)
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#4414142 - 05/25/17 02:38 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
BeerCan Offline


Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 607
Loc: FL
I have a Dual 701 that has been refurbed. I like it but still listen to digital most of the time. My aging ears find it hard to tell the difference. I have some pretty good equipment do that could account for the minimal differences.
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#4414226 - 05/25/17 04:15 PM Re: Old record players [Re: aquariuscsm]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I have this one. A Realistic Lab-440 with a Shure cartridge.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/realistic-lab-440-tell-me-about-it.184588/



Pretty nice specs thumbsup

The thread that got me to pick-up this one is here: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/turntable-questions.401012/

Specs:
Quote:
The Q in SR-Q200 indicates that itís a quartz lock direct drive turntable (that was confirmed by an Ebay ad for a service manual), so it should be capable of quite reasonable performance Ė the Japanese only used quartz lock, on their mid-range to top-end turntables. Cheaper turntables were usually non-quartz-lock direct drive, with the speed user adjustable with reference to a stroboscope, with the cheapest (from the late-70ís onwards) being belt drive.

According to the picture of the service manual front cover, the specifications for the Toshiba/Aurex SR-Q200 are: wow and flutter less than 0.025% WRMS, rumble -75dB (DIN B weighted), weight 6.5kg, and it was sold in some export markets as the Toshiba SR-Q200.


*snip*

Quote:
Technics invented direct drive in 1970, and all their best turntables after that were direct drive, with only the very cheapest (but still quite competent) models being belt drive, as belt drive is cheaper to produce. None had performance to equal the specs I quoted above for the Toshiba/Aurex, although they werenít far short. As Technics, with their huge resources, made many more turntable models (see * below) than any other manufacturer in the 1970ís and 1980ís, itís no wonder their models looked good Ė they had a lot of practice!:D Looks donít equate to performance, though.


Which indicated to me that for $150.00, it was a pretty darn good deal!
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#4414294 - 05/25/17 05:59 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
46Harry Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 409
Loc: hawthorne, Ca.
I have a Dual 701 that I bought new in 1974 and a newer Music Hall MMF5. The MMF5 is hooked up right now, but the Dual will go into service shortly. The big thing with turntables is the quality of the cartridge and stylus, do not cheap out when buying one.

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#4414299 - 05/25/17 06:06 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 18173
Loc: Dallas,Tx USA
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#4414301 - 05/25/17 06:11 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 18173
Loc: Dallas,Tx USA
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#4414307 - 05/25/17 06:15 PM Re: Old record players [Re: OVERKILL]
sparky123 Offline


Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 377
Loc: virginia
Presently using an entry-level Project TT bought used 10 yrs ago. Sumiko Oyster cart. Parasound phono pre-amp and a chinese copy of a Musical Fidelity X-10 tube buffer. Sounds really nice together. Records rock!
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