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SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits #4406112
05/16/17 10:26 AM
05/16/17 10:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,690
Idaho
SubLGT Offline OP
SubLGT  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,690
Idaho
Quote:
...A new [SAE] task force is working on devising technical provisions for LED retrofit light sources (i.e., "LED bulbs" designed to replace halogen bulbs in headlamps). No such task force was ever convened for "HID retrofits", which are basically technically impossible to do in a safe and effective manner. But there is enough R&D momentum toward genuinely functional LED retrofits, and there are enough bogus products flooding the market, that such a task force is warranted.


(From drivingvisionnews.com)

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4406126
05/16/17 10:41 AM
05/16/17 10:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 476
MN
WillsYoda Offline
WillsYoda  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 476
MN
Good. Those LED bulbs are very inconsistent. I want to see something like an API donut I can trust.

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4406163
05/16/17 11:21 AM
05/16/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,490
Toronto Canada
WobblyElvis Online content
WobblyElvis  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,490
Toronto Canada
I think they should hurry up and get something done about all the ignorant people putting aftermarket LED bulbs in their old style headlamps. The beam produced is a safety hazard.

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4406189
05/16/17 12:02 PM
05/16/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
Sort of curious why they are so vehemently against an hid retrofit.

Rebasing an HID bulb, where the hot spot may not be the same as an incandescent is one thing. But if going this path, why not make a performance spec that doesn't force led or hid, but rather the approach to make a "genuinely functional" (their term) retrofit regardless of the tech. If the stipulation is to start with something, like a projector, so be it.

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: JHZR2] #4406215
05/16/17 12:32 PM
05/16/17 12:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Sort of curious why they are so vehemently against an hid retrofit.

Rebasing an HID bulb, where the hot spot may not be the same as an incandescent is one thing. But if going this path, why not make a performance spec that doesn't force led or hid, but rather the approach to make a "genuinely functional" (their term) retrofit regardless of the tech. If the stipulation is to start with something, like a projector, so be it.


Largely due to safety.

Factory HIDs have the high voltage module and wiring all contained within the lamp. They also have tethers so that if the housing leaves the vehicle body in an accident, it cuts the wiring to the unit. I have never seen an aftermarket unit have either of these features. The voltage output running to an HID bulb can kill. This is especially important to emergency crews.

If someone has aftermarket HIDs and get into an accident, and some firefighter dies because of these cheap retrofits, I hope that person goes to jail for a long, long time.

Last edited by mightymousetech; 05/16/17 12:33 PM.

Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
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Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4422997
06/05/17 08:43 AM
06/05/17 08:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 147
Va.
Piston_slap Offline
Piston_slap  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 147
Va.
You'd think that LED's had snuck up on the SAE last week. I'd like to see both standards and labeling ready at the end of the year.


1994 Ford Econoline w/302 & 4R70W
Valvoline 10W-40, Motorcraft FL1
Isotope U235
Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: WobblyElvis] #4423061
06/05/17 10:25 AM
06/05/17 10:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
DBMaster Offline
DBMaster  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I think they should hurry up and get something done about all the ignorant people putting aftermarket LED bulbs in their old style headlamps. The beam produced is a safety hazard.


It MIGHT help with future retrofits, but the ones who've already done it probably won't replace theirs and there will still be plenty of cheap "unapproved" retrofits that people will buy. I'm afraid glare is going to be a way of life for the foreseeable future.

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4427916
06/10/17 03:40 PM
06/10/17 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,887
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,887
Central Washington
Im currently working on doing a projector retrofit on a set of headlamps. Gonna run HIDs for now since I have all the equipment for it but would like to go to LEDs at some point provided I have enough room behind the light. Dont really want to push any more light into my factory housings without the projectors as I already have been flashed for my current setup of Relays and 9007 Phillips Xtremevision. The Crown Vic headlamp is such a terrible design. Hopefully they have this setup by that point.

Last edited by Colt45ws; 06/10/17 03:45 PM.

-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4544994
10/16/17 09:31 AM
10/16/17 09:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,690
Idaho
SubLGT Offline OP
SubLGT  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,690
Idaho
http://standards.sae.org/wip/j3145/

SAE standard J3145 is a work in progress:

Quote:


Forward Lighting LED Substitute Light Sources for Halogen Light Sources


Scope:
This SAE Recommended Practice is intended as a guide for specifying LED Substitute Light Sources as Equivalents for corresponding RID filament light sources and is subject to change to keep pace with experience and technical advances. This document defines criteria for technical equivalence in order to make a substitution of a filament light source with an LED light source without compromising the performance of the RID device.

Rationale:
The technology of high power LED packages has progressed to a level where applications involving LED Substitute Light Sources as Equivalents for corresponding RID filament light sources is becoming technically feasible. The SAE document is intended to describe the industry best practice in specifying such replaceable LED light sources.

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4545750
10/17/17 01:07 AM
10/17/17 01:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 181
MI
HorseThief Offline
HorseThief  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 181
MI
I will admit that I have LEDs... They are BroView S7's in a 9008 dual filament style retrofit. They use Philips LEDS that are laid out in the pattern of the original filament and on low beams give me far more light and better beam pattern than halogens. The high beams are not as tight and useful as the original halogens. The other issue is color rendering - halogen bulbs have an inherent CRI of 100 vs 80-90 for LEDs.

I've only ever once had someone flash their highbeams at me, but it was as I was cresting a hill and they were at a low angle.

If I can find decent headlight housings cheap enough, I am going to do an HID hi/lo projector retrofit for better beam characteristics and color rendering. I'm not trying to be obnoxious or stand out, its just that the crown vic/grand marquis headlights suck (as Cotton already pointed out). Quite frankly, I'd even do halogen projectors so I don't have to worry about ballasts going out - one less failure point.

While I understand the hypocrisy, I really hate all the idiots out there with [censored] LEDs or HIDs that blind eeveryone - especially trucks and jeeps. The jeeps can be REALLY bad around here with 8+ high flux LED retrofits that are meant for offroad use. There are so many bad kits out there - I really had to take my time and wade through a lot of garbage to come as close as possible to Philips' original design that's marketed in some SE Asian markets.

Last edited by HorseThief; 10/17/17 01:13 AM.

I saw a brown dog
Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4545786
10/17/17 03:52 AM
10/17/17 03:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,489
Seattle-ish, WA
Oro_O Offline
Oro_O  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,489
Seattle-ish, WA
This was a subject I wanted to ask about - what are current options for upgrading older, marginal lighting systems?

I have an older Audi I am refurbishing this winter. One issue is the marginal stock lighting (single headlamp with dual 9005/9006 bulbs in each). They are wholly inadequate, and were so when new. You can't run higher wattage bulbs or you fry the switch in the column stalk. You could build a relay to allow higher wattage bulbs, but I was hoping there was a new technology I could just plug and play. I don't know what the current state of the art is.

Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: WobblyElvis] #4545811
10/17/17 04:31 AM
10/17/17 04:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,507
Texas & Global
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,507
Texas & Global
DV all over again. think they should get ahead on this as there are some terrible blinding lights out there now

I stick with conventional bulbs in standard watts but try to get pretty white on the spectrum
Even then after getting flashed at ~ I have shimmed my lights a bit more to the road shoulder


2018 Chevy 1500 Z71 4WD
2017 Chevy Tahoe LT 4WD
2014 Fusion Hybrid Titanium
2013 Cruze LTZ - RS Turbo
Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: Oro_O] #4611762
12/23/17 12:02 AM
12/23/17 12:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 426
Nevada, USA
gaijinnv Offline
gaijinnv  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 426
Nevada, USA
Originally Posted By: Oro_O
This was a subject I wanted to ask about - what are current options for upgrading older, marginal lighting systems?

I have an older Audi I am refurbishing this winter. One issue is the marginal stock lighting (single headlamp with dual 9005/9006 bulbs in each). They are wholly inadequate, and were so when new. You can't run higher wattage bulbs or you fry the switch in the column stalk. You could build a relay to allow higher wattage bulbs, but I was hoping there was a new technology I could just plug and play. I don't know what the current state of the art is.


I recently replaced the 9005 high beam bulbs in my 2013 Toyota LandCruiser with some IPF LED's model 351HLB2 - they work like a charm. Not sure what you mean by "dual 9005/9006 bulbs" in your application, but if they are indeed two bulbs in each housing, the bulb I used can be substituted for either 9005/HB3 or 9006/HB4 applications.

Here's what I purchased:



Front of truck with low beams (OEM HID) and fogs (Halogen):



At the same exposure with the IPF LED high beams switched on:



Low beams and fogs projected onto my garage door:



And at the same exposure with the IPF LED high beams switched on:



The IPF LED's are rated for 5000 lumens each and they certainly look every bit of that.

HTH


USN NAVSECGRU 1970-1974
Re: SAE Working on Standards for LED Retrofits [Re: SubLGT] #4615048
12/26/17 07:09 PM
12/26/17 07:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 147
Va.
Piston_slap Offline
Piston_slap  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 147
Va.
This must have snuck up by surprise on the SAE. I don't see why this matter and other standards issues regarding LED replacement lamps weren't started years ago. I've run across simple matters such as a LED lamp base not fitting into a factory socket. The Chinese will never initiate anything, it's got to be our job. mad


1994 Ford Econoline w/302 & 4R70W
Valvoline 10W-40, Motorcraft FL1
Isotope U235

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