Pad/Rotor choices (Euro-centric)

[Carmudgeon]

Putting together an order for a brake job.

The car in question sees only 5000mi/yr (albeit spirited) so it's been a while.

It's currently wearing Axxis Ultimate pads on Balo rotors. I like that combo, and am looking for something similar. I wouldn't mind less dust, but know that it's a "cake eating" situation.

For whatever reason, Balo and Axxis no longer seem to be available in the U.S., aside from NOS. (anyone know why?)

So, I've narrowed it down to Zimmerman/ATE/Brembo/Centric 125 for the rotors. Hawk HPS 5.0 or StopTech Sport (fka Street Performance) for the pads.

I've looked into ceramic pads, like the Akeobono Euro Ceramic but they're definitely a divisive, love/hate thing. The Ultimates are purportedly a "ceramic" formula, but since there are no hard/fast guidelines, I'm treating it as if I've never driven on ceramic pads before.

The best that is said about ceramic pads is that they dust far less. Opinions about their other characteristics range from acceptable (for a DD/street pad) to scorn.

Ultimately, I care more about how well brakes stop a car than how much they dust, so I've decided ceramics aren't for me.

Zimmerman stands the best chance of still being German-made, so they're the favorite in terms of rotors.

But I'm still torn between the StopTechs (which are said to be similar to the Ultimates) and HPS 5.0 (it's not that new any more, but there are still few opinions about them).

Brakes and tire evaluations are mostly, and highly subjective, which makes evaluations more difficult, but I'm still open to suggestions.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Akeobono makes great pads, and their Euro ceramic pads are good quality and will give you good stopping power with no problems

You should also consider EBC plain rotors. They have a very good chance of being made in the UK. Their Redstuff pads might also suit your needs. Autoanything usually has the best price on EBC pads and rotors.

Their US importer, Nugeon, stopped carrying Axxis pads because of poor sales. You might be able to get them from Brakewarehouse or importrp, but a higher price that Nugeon charged for them.

 

[NASTI]

I have used all three options of the pads you listed and the Axxis Ultimates had the best stopping power. I would stick with them unless you can no longer find a source for them. The Stoptech Street 309 formula pads are a notch down from the Axxis Ultimates, both in stopping power and dust level but at a fraction price of the Axxis/PBR Ultimates.. Zimmerman rotors are a solid choice for an OE high carbon rotor that are made in Germany.

 

[djb]

What car model is this for? It does make a difference.

I use Akeobono pads on the family car, a BMW e39 touring. They are solid, predictable quiet pads for a somewhat heavys family car. They don't have a strong initial bite, but they also don't grab and unexpectedly lock up one wheel. I don't consider them a performance pad.

I've tried a bunch of pads on my much lighter Z3. I put on EBC Green Stuff pads for a HPDE day, and they instantly became my full-time favorite. The are easy on the rotors, and not much differ in performance than the Hawk HP+ pads that were my previous summer drive pads. I've been told that I wouldn't be as satisfied with the green pads on a heavier car

 

[Carmudgeon]

Thanks, and sorry for the delay...

It's an E36, so it's not heavy (part of why I still like it), and has decently-sized brakes.

Funny to hear that about Axxis. They were long a player in import car pads, under the previous PBR branding, with the Deluxe and Metal Master formulations (the latter of which could result in some eye-opening moments before they warmed up on a cold morning). I guess the market overtook them.

I also recall EBC Green pads acquiring an awful reputation when they first came out, with NVH and rotor deposit issues.

The Ultimates were said to dust less than the traditionally dusty Euro pads, but they still dust a fair amount...I have no complaints about their performance, though.

Looks like I'll either go HPS 5.0 or OE/OEM; both are roughly the same price.

FWIW, I read someone who bought a set of the newer StopTech 308 pads, and found a set of 104s in the box. They contacted StopTech and were told it was not an error.

 

[spasm3]

The EBC green pads have done well on my son's s-series saturn ( 23-2400lbs). I'm not sure they last that long, but are easy on the rotor, I am thinking about the EBC red on them.

 

[meep]

I've been a heavy akebono user but have learned the downsides of their pads as well-- when they are on a car they agree with, they are wonderful. I've put them on 2 chyrsler products, a minivan and an '08 WK, (grand chero), and an older MDX, and they were great if not fantastic. They engaged smoothly, intuitively, yet had lots of stopping power that was very easy to modulate. They were original equipment on that WK, I'm pretty sure. No noise ever, great pedal feel, no dusting.

They were so anemic they were nearly dangerous on our tundra, especially when towing. That said, tundras are known for weak brakes. The akebonos on the tundra were rated FG if I remember, which was a little weird. You could feel them transitioning into "G" as they warmed up, but right after stopping, they'd cool back down and would fall back into the "F" category. It was weird and if you noticed it, almost annoying.

They are a pretty good but a little mixed on our volvos- there are 2 in the family. oem volvo brakes are very grippy, at the expense of being a little grabby at initial tip-in. Akebono in that application improves upon that, but then more pedal pressure is required if you want to stop quickly. Modulation is good.

I've moved the truck to Hawk LTS and have been very happy with those. I suspect they are semi-metallic, there is more dusting, and there could be more rotor wear, but it's all worth it for control.

I'm breaking in a set of Hawk HPS on one of the volvos. stopping force seems to be very similar to the akebono with a perhaps a touch more bite, but the oem characteristic of being grabby at first application seems to be there as well. It's probably close, actually, to oem.

This is becoming one of those cases where the more you know, the more frustrating it can become - as one can't have a "go-to" brand. I really like akebono, but I'm learning, I still can't use them on everything. We'll see how Hawk does for a while.

-m

 

[Olas]

If you want an uprated, standard fit replacement, look at Zimmerman or Brembo discs and either Pagid Sport or Carbon Lorraine pads.

If you have very good tyres look at Wilwood, AP, Tarox etc.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

@meep, I'm surprised Toyota is the one that would give you problems with Akebono! It seems like Wagner Severe Duty or OEX might also be a good choice on your truck, or at least some truck-specific pads (like the LTS you're using now)

Do you know who the OE supplier was on the Tundra?

 

[Carmudgeon]

Originally Posted By: meep

This is becoming one of those cases where the more you know, the more frustrating it can become - as one can't have a "go-to" brand. I really like akebono, but I'm learning, I still can't use them on everything. We'll see how Hawk does for a while.


This topic is very much like tire evaluations; almost entirely subjective (including personal preference/bias), a slew of variables (vehicle/driving style/conditions/terrain), plus a limited sample size (most vehicles consumer only a handful, if that).

The more one reads, the further down a rabbit hole one goes.

And attempts at standardization, like UTQG ratings, hold about as much weight in real life experience.

 

[Olas]

Look for OEM brakes off a larger model of the same car, or one with a bigger engine.

Also, GG rated pads.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog


Do you know who the OE supplier was on the Tundra?

Toyota uses Akebono, Nisshinbo(NBK) or Advics pads - and I think either Textar/Pagid/Mintex, Jurid or Ferodo on Lexus models with Brembo brakes.

Toyota's TCMC "value" pads are made by Akebono in the US - they could be the same as their ProACT line or their discontinued "Import Specialist" white-box line.

 

[UG_Passat]

Centric Premium rotors or spend a little extra for their high carbon rotors

Pads: EBC calls their Redstuff ceramic. I like them better than the Akebono Euro-ceramics. The Akebonos had an on-off feel to them, which I didn't care for. The EBC Redstuff had a more linear feel

 

[drtyler]

OE brakes on my '04 Tundra were Sumitomo.

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog


Do you know who the OE supplier was on the Tundra?

Toyota uses Akebono, Nisshinbo(NBK) or Advics pads - and I think either Textar/Pagid/Mintex, Jurid or Ferodo on Lexus models with Brembo brakes.

Toyota's TCMC "value" pads are made by Akebono in the US - they could be the same as their ProACT line or their discontinued "Import Specialist" white-box line.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Centric Premium rotors or spend a little extra for their high carbon rotors

Pads: EBC calls their Redstuff ceramic. I like them better than the Akebono Euro-ceramics. The Akebonos had an on-off feel to them, which I didn't care for. The EBC Redstuff had a more linear feel

Akebono is biggest POS I ever put on the car. I took them off after 2K on my CC. I ahve now EBC Redstuff on Tiguan with Brembo sport rotors, and they are improvement in feel over OEM VW (ATE).
EBC Redstuff is light years ahed of Akebono, but it dusts. EBS Redstuff is combination of ceramic/kevlar and other materials.
When it comes to rotors, I always go first for Brembo or ATE.
As for pads, if OP just wants replacement pads, Textar, ATE, Pagid, Jurid are probably best option. I think it depends which car is it. I did not catch that. I know on BMW OEM pads are by far best option when it comes to performance. EBC etc. are OK, but not on par with OEM. Also, I have now on X5 Textar and cannot say there is any difference compare to OEM. I know that some BMW owners are saying that EBC Redstuff is not as aggressive as OEM.