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I just don't get it…….. #4401117
05/10/17 02:13 PM
05/10/17 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 636
Nebraska
Duffyjr Offline OP
Duffyjr  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 636
Nebraska
I'm reading a thread and the gist is how much better engines are today because of the tighter tolerances engines are built to. Then I go to a thread where some of you say it's nothing to worry about when an new engine uses a couple quarts of oil between changes. This makes no sense to me.

I've only owned two vehicles that used oil but they were farm trucks that had the life beaten out of them by the time I got them. A 67 chevy and a 69 GMC both 1/2 tons one with a 283 and one with a 250 six. All the other vehicles I've owned have not used oil to where I had to add between changes. I've also never owned anything newer than my 99 Buick.

What am I missing here guys?


89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne CX NAPA Blend 5w30/Napa Gold
02 DeVille VWB bulk/CQ Blue
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401120
05/10/17 02:15 PM
05/10/17 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,484
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,484
Waco, TX
Not sure, but my friend's 2005 F150 4.6 goes 8K between oil changes (always Super Tech synthetic) ... has 171,000 miles and never uses a drop.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401127
05/10/17 02:18 PM
05/10/17 02:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,316
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,316
San Antonio, TX
Emissions.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401146
05/10/17 02:32 PM
05/10/17 02:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,461
Toronto Canada
WobblyElvis Offline
WobblyElvis  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,461
Toronto Canada
I don't know why but all the engines I've ever had used some oil. My current car, an 06 Malibu, just keeps consuming more and more oil as it ages. Up to 1qt/4000 miles now. UOA show very little wear metals. Low friction rings?

Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401161
05/10/17 02:55 PM
05/10/17 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Olas Offline
Olas  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Rings or stem seals or PCV.

They all use oil but if it's a measurable amount within an OCI you need a mechanical repair.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401181
05/10/17 03:09 PM
05/10/17 03:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
When I rebuilt my 84 Civic the machine shop that did all the need machine work used some kind of special machine to hone and match the cylinders to the pistons.

I now have something over 20K on the rebuild and I can't see any movement on the dipstick between 10K oil changes. This is with 0w-30 synthetic oil.

Then a neighbor buys a new Mercedes and at 50K miles it's burning a quart between 500 and 1K miles using dealer supplied oil and service. The dealer tells him this is normal. Do you think I should call up Mercedes in Germany and give them the phone number of the machine shop that did my engine? lol

Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401187
05/10/17 03:13 PM
05/10/17 03:13 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,410
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,410
ROCHESTER, NY
If engines were built to higher & higher tolerances over the decades, the internal engine parts wouldn't be able to move in the engine.

I think/believe that when people say "tighter tolerates" that the really mean that engine spec's have been tightened closer to the center of that specification. In other words, what is acceptable to the engineers as compared to yesteryear.

What was allowed to pass inspection years ago wouldn't even hold a candle to todays production. What was allowed to leave the factory years ago would be considered a FAIL today by Quality/QC or line inspectors.

So, are the internals of an engine that much tighter than lets say, 40 years ago? A little!
I mean, everything today in the automotive world is designed differently as well for fuel economy, emissions, longevity etc.


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401192
05/10/17 03:19 PM
05/10/17 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Olas Offline
Olas  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Tolerances are not the same as clearances.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Olas] #4401226
05/10/17 03:59 PM
05/10/17 03:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,484
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,484
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Olas
Tolerances are not the same as clearances.


Correct - and a lot of engineering has been done to reduce the amount of clearances (rather, tighter clearances) because parts don't expand/contract as much has before.

High-silicon content Hypereutectic pistons are a perfect example.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401260
05/10/17 04:48 PM
05/10/17 04:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,570
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,570
The Motor City
I've been led to believe they reduced tension in piston rings to reduce friction losses. This allows more oil to bypass the rings.

Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Char Baby] #4401298
05/10/17 05:53 PM
05/10/17 05:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,724
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,724
Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
If engines were built to higher & higher tolerances over the decades, the internal engine parts wouldn't be able to move in the engine.

I think/believe that when people say "tighter tolerates" that the really mean that engine spec's have been tightened closer to the center of that specification. In other words, what is acceptable to the engineers as compared to yesteryear.

What was allowed to pass inspection years ago wouldn't even hold a candle to todays production. What was allowed to leave the factory years ago would be considered a FAIL today by Quality/QC or line inspectors.

So, are the internals of an engine that much tighter than lets say, 40 years ago? A little!
I mean, everything today in the automotive world is designed differently as well for fuel economy, emissions, longevity etc.


I think part of it is also there is less variance between engines. You could have 2 Chevy 350's with identical parts that were totally different in performance due to all the small differences in parts adding up. Today, the 2 identical engines built would be very similar in power.

Originally Posted By: Olas
Tolerances are not the same as clearances.

Totally.


'12 Scion xB: QSUD 0w20/CQ Blue/5k
'02 F150: GTX HM 5w20/EcoGard Syn/1yr
'94 Honda VT1100: Peak 15w40/PSL/5k
'04 F150: GTX HM 5w20/TG2/4k
'07 Vue: VSP 5w30/D+/OLM
'10 Santa Fe: PP 0w20/P1/8k

Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401303
05/10/17 05:57 PM
05/10/17 05:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,383
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,383
PA
One thing to consider: Oil change intervals have gone way up. If your car consumes a quart every 4k, it'd never need top-off with 3k OCIs -- but with 10k OCIs, it'd need two quarts.


2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: d00df00d] #4401312
05/10/17 06:10 PM
05/10/17 06:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,490
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,490
Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
... If your car consumes a quart every 4k, it'd never need top-off with 3k OCIs -- but with 10k OCIs, it'd need two quarts.
That's a good point too often ignored. Change intervals and consumption rates are separate issues. I wish people would shut up with muddling them together by talking about consumption per change interval. If (hypothetically) advances in oil composition allow doubling the change interval, that's no reason to assume consumption per unit distance will automatically drop by half.

Last edited by CR94; 05/10/17 06:14 PM.

2011 Toyota Prius now at 93K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr] #4401324
05/10/17 06:29 PM
05/10/17 06:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,724
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,724
USA
Better engineering, better metals, better CAD repeatable parts, better ignition systems that are ECU driven, VVT, better cooling, really just better everything.


2018 RAM 1500 3.6/8 speed.
2017 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6
"U kan't fixe it......if'n it ain't broke."
Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Olas] #4401421
05/10/17 08:36 PM
05/10/17 08:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 683
Atlanta, GA
RoGuE Offline
RoGuE  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 683
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I don't know why but all the engines I've ever had used some oil. My current car, an 06 Malibu, just keeps consuming more and more oil as it ages. Up to 1qt/4000 miles now. UOA show very little wear metals. Low friction rings?
Originally Posted By: Olas
Rings or stem seals or PCV.

They all use oil but if it's a measurable amount within an OCI you need a mechanical repair.


I'd say PCV. My Malibus throttle body was covered in oil. I tracked it to the "PCV valve" built in to the valve cover. Mine uses significantly lessthough , 1/2 qt per 5k miles. The car only has 51k miles on it though.


2007 Chevrolet Malibu
2.2L Ecotec
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