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#4401117 - 05/10/17 02:13 PM I just don't get it……..
Duffyjr Offline


Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 534
Loc: Nebraska
I'm reading a thread and the gist is how much better engines are today because of the tighter tolerances engines are built to. Then I go to a thread where some of you say it's nothing to worry about when an new engine uses a couple quarts of oil between changes. This makes no sense to me.

I've only owned two vehicles that used oil but they were farm trucks that had the life beaten out of them by the time I got them. A 67 chevy and a 69 GMC both 1/2 tons one with a 283 and one with a 250 six. All the other vehicles I've owned have not used oil to where I had to add between changes. I've also never owned anything newer than my 99 Buick.

What am I missing here guys?
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#4401120 - 05/10/17 02:15 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Not sure, but my friend's 2005 F150 4.6 goes 8K between oil changes (always Super Tech synthetic) ... has 171,000 miles and never uses a drop.
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(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4401127 - 05/10/17 02:18 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
E150GT Offline


Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 1162
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Emissions.
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1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 56k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 30k ?w30

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#4401146 - 05/10/17 02:32 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
WobblyElvis Offline


Registered: 09/23/14
Posts: 1391
Loc: Toronto Canada
I don't know why but all the engines I've ever had used some oil. My current car, an 06 Malibu, just keeps consuming more and more oil as it ages. Up to 1qt/4000 miles now. UOA show very little wear metals. Low friction rings?

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#4401161 - 05/10/17 02:55 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 3938
Loc: Manchester, England
Rings or stem seals or PCV.

They all use oil but if it's a measurable amount within an OCI you need a mechanical repair.
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#4401181 - 05/10/17 03:09 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7485
Loc: S California
When I rebuilt my 84 Civic the machine shop that did all the need machine work used some kind of special machine to hone and match the cylinders to the pistons.

I now have something over 20K on the rebuild and I can't see any movement on the dipstick between 10K oil changes. This is with 0w-30 synthetic oil.

Then a neighbor buys a new Mercedes and at 50K miles it's burning a quart between 500 and 1K miles using dealer supplied oil and service. The dealer tells him this is normal. Do you think I should call up Mercedes in Germany and give them the phone number of the machine shop that did my engine? lol

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#4401187 - 05/10/17 03:13 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 10086
Loc: ROCHESTER, NY
If engines were built to higher & higher tolerances over the decades, the internal engine parts wouldn't be able to move in the engine.

I think/believe that when people say "tighter tolerates" that the really mean that engine spec's have been tightened closer to the center of that specification. In other words, what is acceptable to the engineers as compared to yesteryear.

What was allowed to pass inspection years ago wouldn't even hold a candle to todays production. What was allowed to leave the factory years ago would be considered a FAIL today by Quality/QC or line inspectors.

So, are the internals of an engine that much tighter than lets say, 40 years ago? A little!
I mean, everything today in the automotive world is designed differently as well for fuel economy, emissions, longevity etc.
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********************************
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#4401192 - 05/10/17 03:19 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 3938
Loc: Manchester, England
Tolerances are not the same as clearances.
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#4401226 - 05/10/17 03:59 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Olas]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Olas
Tolerances are not the same as clearances.


Correct - and a lot of engineering has been done to reduce the amount of clearances (rather, tighter clearances) because parts don't expand/contract as much has before.

High-silicon content Hypereutectic pistons are a perfect example.
_________________________
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(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4401260 - 05/10/17 04:48 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 12400
Loc: The Motor City
I've been led to believe they reduced tension in piston rings to reduce friction losses. This allows more oil to bypass the rings.

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#4401298 - 05/10/17 05:53 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Char Baby]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4492
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
If engines were built to higher & higher tolerances over the decades, the internal engine parts wouldn't be able to move in the engine.

I think/believe that when people say "tighter tolerates" that the really mean that engine spec's have been tightened closer to the center of that specification. In other words, what is acceptable to the engineers as compared to yesteryear.

What was allowed to pass inspection years ago wouldn't even hold a candle to todays production. What was allowed to leave the factory years ago would be considered a FAIL today by Quality/QC or line inspectors.

So, are the internals of an engine that much tighter than lets say, 40 years ago? A little!
I mean, everything today in the automotive world is designed differently as well for fuel economy, emissions, longevity etc.


I think part of it is also there is less variance between engines. You could have 2 Chevy 350's with identical parts that were totally different in performance due to all the small differences in parts adding up. Today, the 2 identical engines built would be very similar in power.

Originally Posted By: Olas
Tolerances are not the same as clearances.

Totally.
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1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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#4401303 - 05/10/17 05:57 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11285
Loc: PA
One thing to consider: Oil change intervals have gone way up. If your car consumes a quart every 4k, it'd never need top-off with 3k OCIs -- but with 10k OCIs, it'd need two quarts.
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#4401312 - 05/10/17 06:10 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: d00df00d]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1193
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
... If your car consumes a quart every 4k, it'd never need top-off with 3k OCIs -- but with 10k OCIs, it'd need two quarts.
That's a good point too often ignored. Change intervals and consumption rates are separate issues. I wish people would shut up with muddling them together by talking about consumption per change interval. If (hypothetically) advances in oil composition allow doubling the change interval, that's no reason to assume consumption per unit distance will automatically drop by half.


Edited by CR94 (05/10/17 06:14 PM)
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1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
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#4401324 - 05/10/17 06:29 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Duffyjr]
oldhp Online   content


Registered: 06/28/12
Posts: 1658
Loc: USA
Better engineering, better metals, better CAD repeatable parts, better ignition systems that are ECU driven, VVT, better cooling, really just better everything.
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#4401421 - 05/10/17 08:36 PM Re: I just don't get it…….. [Re: Olas]
RoGuE Offline


Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 681
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I don't know why but all the engines I've ever had used some oil. My current car, an 06 Malibu, just keeps consuming more and more oil as it ages. Up to 1qt/4000 miles now. UOA show very little wear metals. Low friction rings?
Originally Posted By: Olas
Rings or stem seals or PCV.

They all use oil but if it's a measurable amount within an OCI you need a mechanical repair.


I'd say PCV. My Malibus throttle body was covered in oil. I tracked it to the "PCV valve" built in to the valve cover. Mine uses significantly lessthough , 1/2 qt per 5k miles. The car only has 51k miles on it though.
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2007 Chevrolet Malibu
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