Recent Topics
Porsche Panamera buying advice
by CharlieBauer
06/23/18 10:04 PM
RC cars
by red7404
06/23/18 09:36 PM
Any Good 4K Movies ?
by Warstud
06/23/18 09:06 PM
Gray on Oil Dipstick?
by chinee
06/23/18 08:41 PM
Clear plastic scratch remover?
by Quattro Pete
06/23/18 08:15 PM
Parking wars show.
by Chris142
06/23/18 08:15 PM
set for years
by 93cruiser
06/23/18 08:07 PM
Looking to replace 2005 Sienna with SUV
by i6pwr
06/23/18 07:26 PM
Trying to fix chainsaw
by turtlevette
06/23/18 06:48 PM
tire rotation
by marine65
06/23/18 06:48 PM
Reese hitch $30 Walmart YMMV
by pda1122
06/23/18 06:14 PM
Managing Anger During Unexpected Tire Change
by TheLawnRanger
06/23/18 06:14 PM
2016 Honda Pilot appears to be consuming oil
by pilot1226
06/23/18 06:00 PM
New belt squeal cause damage to belt?
by pda1122
06/23/18 05:33 PM
Food Safety - If You Have Children
by Zee09
06/23/18 05:15 PM
Reduce TORQUE to COMPENSATE for lubed threads?
by SumpChump
06/23/18 05:02 PM
Chain cleaning and lube
by dadinfo
06/23/18 04:57 PM
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 $23.65 at Walmart
by 71Chevyguy
06/23/18 04:36 PM
diesel oil in older engines- RE: cats etc
by 928
06/23/18 04:35 PM
2011 F-150 Ecoboost timing chain replacement
by 14Accent
06/23/18 04:31 PM
Newest Members
bwechols, bowupid, pod423, lemaitrix, azzid0906
65303 Registered Users
Who's Online
99 registered (bbhero, Aero540T, Balrog006, AITG, 11 invisible), 1416 Guests and 30 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65303 Members
67 Forums
285882 Topics
4770906 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4395731 - 05/03/17 07:00 PM 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Hey BITOG faithful, here is the most recent run in the GF's Lexus at 159,405 miles on PUP 5w30 run for just about 6 months on oil that Pennzoil provided. I paid for the entire report because there is apparently "funding issues" with the Pennzoil TAB at Blackstone. I wanted the results so I just opted to foot the bill.

Car use hasn't changed since the previous sample (work days 110 miles round trip, days off short in town trips) which was 4 quarts of M1 SM spec 5w30 and 1 quart Red Line 5w30 with a FL910S filter. Current run was with a Fram Ultra XG3614 cut/posted here on the forum.

I have to admit the UOA additives portion looks really weak, but the oil performed admirably, I was skeptical that it could show any improvement over what I'd been seeing, but wear metals are within the accuracy of the analysis or down.

Current fill is PYB SAE 30 and a Rock Auto Ultra Power filter that appears to be a copy of a DENSO or Toyota filter, current run will be in the car for 5,600 ish with another sample after.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4395766 - 05/03/17 07:31 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I meant to mention that I expected slightly lower counts on the particle count at 21 & 14 microns but I still think the Fram Ultra did well here.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4395828 - 05/03/17 09:25 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
Carbon12 Offline


Registered: 03/10/15
Posts: 199
Loc: MO
The uoa section is my favorite. I look at almost everyone of them. I cannot recall ever seeing a 3 ppm iron for 10k miles. That is very very low. 1 ppm iron per 1k is pretty rare but 0.3/1k is super. Nice report. I look forward to seeing how pyb sae 30 does.

Top
#4395835 - 05/03/17 09:42 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
bbhero Online   content


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4629
Loc: Virginia
I am quite sure that you know that a voa does not show all what makes up a oil. It may well seem a bit short of somethings additive wise. I do thing the zinc and phosphorus are just a bit lower than I would've expected.
The oil is in great shape after these miles. In grade viscosity wise and good flash point.
I like the insolubles that you had tested as well. Very interesting in how many less than 10 micons the filter caught. I may well be wrong but I believe that particles between 10-40 micons cause the most wear in an engine. The Fram Ultra is a top tier filter for sure.
_________________________
Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30 Federated Auto 4612ex
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

Top
#4396200 - 05/04/17 11:57 AM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: bbhero]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: bbhero
I am quite sure that you know that a voa does not show all what makes up a oil. It may well seem a bit short of somethings additive wise. I do thing the zinc and phosphorus are just a bit lower than I would've expected.
The oil is in great shape after these miles. In grade viscosity wise and good flash point.
I like the insolubles that you had tested as well. Very interesting in how many less than 10 micons the filter caught. I may well be wrong but I believe that particles between 10-40 micons cause the most wear in an engine. The Fram Ultra is a top tier filter for sure.


I have no doubt that there are inorganic additives at work here, the oil really performed well for as little shows up on the UOA.

I will have a particle test done with the unknown efficicncy filter that's currently installed for comparision next UOA.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4396385 - 05/04/17 04:43 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17795
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I meant to mention that I expected slightly lower counts on the particle count at 21 & 14 microns but I still think the Fram Ultra did well here.


Do you have any other particle count data like this for a different filter besides the Ultra? Also, I'm thinking how long the filter is ran might also contribute to how the particle count comes out. So comparing Filter A to Filter B that was ran half the distance might no be a true comparison.

Top
#4396425 - 05/04/17 05:48 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: ZeeOSix]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Z06,

I don't have any other particle count data currently and I'm not willing to run this filter for 10k as I've never run or cut one before. I'm going to run it for 5k and cut and get a particle count. If it looks ok I'll consider running one 10k but the more likely situation would be to run one of my Wix made Car Quest Blue filters to 10k on the same oil (or perhaps M1 EP) as an A/B test.

The car will be running straight weight oil for the summer, this fall it'll be back to a multi-vis and I'll likely do another 10k run then.

I'm not sure how the shorter run would stack up. I suspect at even half the mileage to see significantly more in the particle count 14 microns up to 40 microns maybe even 70 even on the shorter run.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4440463 - 06/24/17 04:58 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
This car is approaching its next service with its current fill of PYB SAE 30 with a unknown COO filter (likely PRC) would there be any interest here in a particle count on the cheap filter as a comparison to the Fram Ultra? I recognize that the current ~5,600 mile run is basically half as long but it's not an extended drain oil or filter like was in use with the PUP. If there is enough curiosity I'll ask for another count on my next service.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4440707 - 06/24/17 10:42 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
ThirdeYe Offline


Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 8155
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
I think it would be neat to see. Incredible results with the PUP. Makes me glad I stocked up on some when Amazon had them on sale.
_________________________
07 Honda Accord - 598k - Valvoline 5W-20/Purolator Synthetic PSL14610

Top
#4440713 - 06/24/17 10:51 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: ThirdeYe]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
I think it would be neat to see. Incredible results with the PUP. Makes me glad I stocked up on some when Amazon had them on sale.


This car has returned excellent UOA results every sample I've taken, I plan to run a batch of M1 EP with the same filter for the same length of time to see how the A/B results pan out. The PUP results are very good, however I think the iron and aluminum numbers are within the accuracy of the analysis considering I've seen VOA with 1-3 ppm of Fe/Al in them.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4445101 - 06/29/17 03:37 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: Austin, Texas
I think the OP is the single best UOA I have ever seen, as far as wear metals go.
_________________________
2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS 6MT 2.4GDI, M1 5w30, OEM filter, 2007 Kia Rondo LX 2.4 I4 5 pass, M1EP 5w30, OEM filter

Top
#4445574 - 06/30/17 12:32 AM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: Brons2]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I think the OP is the single best UOA I have ever seen, as far as wear metals go.


Thank you, I didn't do anything special here, just a good low wear metal producing engine that has been well cared for its entire life. But I appreciate the compliment.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
#4445655 - 06/30/17 06:51 AM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: Brons2]
04SE Offline


Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 915
Loc: IL
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I think the OP is the single best UOA I have ever seen, as far as wear metals go.


2002 1MZ-FE UOA

Check that one out.
_________________________
Life's little problems can be solved with a shovel and silence.

Top
#4446014 - 06/30/17 02:39 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: FlyNavyP3]
Gokhan Online   content


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 3016
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Great report. I think you owe the unusually low wear to the Fram Ultra XG3614, not only super-quality but also oversized. It'll definitely be my next oil filter in my Corolla.

One thought though: Given the super efficiency of XG3614, some of the iron may be caught in the oil-filter media instead of showing in the UOA.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 270,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN synthetic
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

Top
#4446250 - 06/30/17 08:22 PM Re: 04 Lexus ES330 PUP 10333mi TBN/TAN/Particle count [Re: Gokhan]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Great report. I think you owe the unusually low wear to the Fram Ultra XG3614, not only super-quality but also oversized. It'll definitely be my next oil filter in my Corolla.

One thought though: Given the super efficiency of XG3614, some of the iron may be caught in the oil-filter media instead of showing in the UOA.


The 3614 isn't oversized for this car, the previous 2 oil changes had Motorcraft FL-910S filters and also had really low wear rates. The filter isn't trapping the iron the engine is shedding, if it was shedding iron big enough to be caught in any significant quantities then it would have a ton of iron smaller than it could catch as well.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >