AGM Batteries - Dos / Don't

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I need to get a few AGM batteries to run my laptop on the road.
I have good luck with Flooded batteries,
I use a 3 stage electronic charger with de-sulfation cycle.
I charge them every month and de-sulfate every couple of months.

What kills AGM batteries? Sulfation? Loss of electrlyte?

I bought a dedicated AGM battery charger
Schumacher SpeedCharge 15 Amp Automotive and Marine Battery Charger

So please educate me on charging and maintaining AGM batteries.
 
By the time you buy all those AGM batteries, you might have spent enough to buy one decent Li-ion battery that might ultimately work better. Have you looked at that option?
 
AGM batteries are tickled to death by too low of charging currents when depleted to 50% state of charge or below. Aim to achieve nearly 30 amps per 100Ah of capacity when discharged to this level.

AGM batteries, like all lead acid batteries need to reach full charge as often as possible after each discharge.

AGMs are fully charged when they can accept only 0.5% of their capacity at absorption voltage.

IE a 100Ah agm accepting 0.5 amps at 14.7v can be considered fully charged, if it is accepting more than 0.5 amps it is not fully charged. It cannot be determined if it is fully charged at lesser voltages. It cannot be determined if it is fully charged by voltage alone, unless the known fully charged RESTING voltage was previously determined on that specific battery, and the battery has not seen any charging sources for many many hours. Surface charge can last for a week on a healthy AGM battery.

Your Schumacher charger might try and bring the battery voltage above 15 volts. Its display might be very inaccurate as to actual voltage at battery terminals. I have a schumacher charger and a pretty low opinion of it as it needs to be babysat for overvoltage, but generally on the AGM setting will not go above 15 volts, but not always.

Partial state of charge cycling AGMS is hard on them. It sees to be harder on them than it would be a flooded deep cycle battery.

I know people make a big deal of pulse desulfation but this has been proven, by those who have the skills tools knolwedge and ability to test actual results, not to do Jack on a truly sulfated battery.

Any time a battery is recharged it is being desulfated. The marketers saw this word, often misspelled and mispronounced, caused wetness in the pants of battery and charger owners and decided to cash in on it.
Dissolving hardened sulfation that was caused by chronic undercharging is not likely to occur, and higher voltages achieved at a higher charge rate, and held for longer, on a warm battery stand the best chance of dissolving hardened sulfation.

As far as the laptop on the road, get a 'car adapter' for your laptop. These will be upto 30% more efficient than using an inverter to power the provided AC/DC transformer brick.

If the laptop regularly pulls more than 60 watts, the Ciggy/12v plug will wear out at some point, and need replacement. If you have to put the key into accessory to power the 12v ports, then there could be other loads on battery draining it faster.

Some 8 or 10 gauge cable, fused at both ends, connecting engine battery to depleted AGM when driving, can replace a fair amount of charge, but how much will depend on the voltage the vehicle's voltage regulator allows and for how long it alows it. It takes time at the proper absorptionm voltage to fully charge a battery. a battery drawn to 50% can be recharged to 80% fairly quickly with a high amp charging source seeking a mid 14 absorption voltage, but 80% to 100% takes no less than 3.5 additional hours, and this is at 14.5ish volts, which no vehicle is going to hold for that long.
 
If I had to pick ONE thing that tends to kill AGM batteries, it would overcharging. That can easily happen by letting a charger run an "equalization" charge on them, as flooded batteries often need. AGMs don't like that... the equalization cycle deliberately over-charges to balance the cells- which works fine with flooded batteries where some electrolyte can boil away and then be replenished. With AGMs, once electrolyte is gone, its not coming back. And they don't NEED equalization.

I pretty much agree with what wrcsixeight said, too. Cycling up and down at partial charge is bad... reach a full charge whenever a charge begins. Spending an eternity on a constant-voltage "float" charger is bad- UPS batteries die this way all the time. A good charger (my favorite is the Clore Prologix: http://www.cloreautomotive.com/pro-logix.php) will STOP charging at a complete charge, periodically monitor the state-of-charge by monitoring acceptance current at a voltage, and will periodically "exercise" the battery by putting a small load on it and then re-charging.

And finally, car charging systems are FAR from ideal for the battery. A car charging system's primary job is to keep the car's electrical bus voltage at the correct level, charging the battery is secondary and the ideal charging stages (bulk, absorbtion, float) are not really followed. Since the electronic regulator was phased-in by Chrysler from 1969-1971, there's at least been temperature correction for the float voltage to help the battery. But think about bulk charging- in a a car, a proper current-limited bulk-charge would result in a system voltage far too low for the car to operate right after starting the car with a deeply discharged battery. Instead, the car's electrical system brings the bus up to ~13.8 volts (depending on the temp correction) and just lets the battery suck down all the current it can swallow until it self-limits due to internal resistance. That results in too-high charging initially, and is why you really should always put a dead battery on a charger if possible, rather than jump-start the car and let the charging system handle it. Sometimes its unavoidable if you're stranded away from home, but doing that always removes a big slug of future life from the battery, IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
AGM batteries are tickled to death by too low of charging currents when depleted to 50% state of charge or below. Aim to achieve nearly 30 amps per 100Ah of capacity when discharged to this level.



Can you provide more than one vendor claiming that to be the optimum scenario? For most, fast charge is a deviation from their optimum, not the norm.

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight


AGM batteries, like all lead acid batteries need to reach full charge as often as possible after each discharge.

AGMs are fully charged when they can accept only 0.5% of their capacity at absorption voltage.

IE a 100Ah agm accepting 0.5 amps at 14.7v can be considered fully charged, if it is accepting more than 0.5 amps it is not fully charged. It cannot be determined if it is fully charged at lesser voltages. It cannot be determined if it is fully charged by voltage alone, unless the known fully charged RESTING voltage was previously determined on that specific battery, and the battery has not seen any charging sources for many many hours. Surface charge can last for a week on a healthy AGM battery.

Your Schumacher charger might try and bring the battery voltage above 15 volts. Its display might be very inaccurate as to actual voltage at battery terminals. I have a schumacher charger and a pretty low opinion of it as it needs to be babysat for overvoltage, but generally on the AGM setting will not go above 15 volts, but not always.



Concur on all accounts.


Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight

Partial state of charge cycling AGMS is hard on them. It sees to be harder on them than it would be a flooded deep cycle battery.



Please cite literature or credible source. The more ions displaced and then replaced, the greater the chance of a less than optimal structure. Narrower voltage ranges are better generally.


Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight


I know people make a big deal of pulse desulfation but this has been proven, by those who have the skills tools knolwedge and ability to test actual results, not to do Jack on a truly sulfated battery.

Any time a battery is recharged it is being desulfated. The marketers saw this word, often misspelled and mispronounced, caused wetness in the pants of battery and charger owners and decided to cash in on it.
Dissolving hardened sulfation that was caused by chronic undercharging is not likely to occur, and higher voltages achieved at a higher charge rate, and held for longer, on a warm battery stand the best chance of dissolving hardened sulfation.



You realize that most chargers are PWM, whether they "pulse desulfate" or not, right? So this is sort of happening for free. Add on top of it harmonics and switching noise and I agree its sort of a gimmick, but it happens anyway to some extent.

The reality is that the chargers I believe you are speaking of are the only practically available ones that are not only temperature compensated, but allow the thermistors to be co-located with the battery, which allows for better tuning of the temperature compensation allocation, which is the most important element.


Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight

As far as the laptop on the road, get a 'car adapter' for your laptop. These will be upto 30% more efficient than using an inverter to power the provided AC/DC transformer brick.

If the laptop regularly pulls more than 60 watts, the Ciggy/12v plug will wear out at some point, and need replacement. If you have to put the key into accessory to power the 12v ports, then there could be other loads on battery draining it faster.

Some 8 or 10 gauge cable, fused at both ends, connecting engine battery to depleted AGM when driving, can replace a fair amount of charge, but how much will depend on the voltage the vehicle's voltage regulator allows and for how long it alows it. It takes time at the proper absorptionm voltage to fully charge a battery. a battery drawn to 50% can be recharged to 80% fairly quickly with a high amp charging source seeking a mid 14 absorption voltage, but 80% to 100% takes no less than 3.5 additional hours, and this is at 14.5ish volts, which no vehicle is going to hold for that long.


+1.
 
Good Stuff guys!


1. Keep AGM fully charged
2. Do not exceed max voltage
3. Do not charge at low amps i.e. trickle charge

Yes, I bought a univesal 12V laptop power supply, that will be my main source of power.

So the Schumacher SpeedCharge might damage the AGM with high volts?
 
Originally Posted By: stockrex
Good Stuff guys!


1. Keep AGM fully charged
2. Do not exceed max voltage
3. Do not charge at low amps i.e. trickle charge

Yes, I bought a univesal 12V laptop power supply, that will be my main source of power.

So the Schumacher SpeedCharge might damage the AGM with high volts?


Schumachers are known to go to excessively high voltages routinely. If the voltage is too high, for as good at recombination as AGM is, if it starts to build up too much gas too fast due to electrolysis, there's a risk of burping and not recombining as much.
 
Lifeline AGM batteries recommend charging rates of no less than 20% when deeply discharged
Page 19
http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/manual.pdf

Odyssey AGM recommedends a 40% charging rate when their battery is deeply cycled:
page 14:

http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-002_1214.pdf

As for AGMs not tolerating PSOC operation as well as their deep cycle flooded counterparts, I gleaned this info from a very experienced and highly respected marine electrician. If you want to argue physics vs experience in actual use, bring it up with him:

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/agm-batteries-making-the-choice.124973/

My own experience with a Northstar AGM, Thin plate pure lead, similar to Odyssey, With many measuring tools and many many cycles watching a voltmeter, an ammeter and an amp hour counter, is that this particular TPPL AGM battery LOVES a high amp recharge from a well depleted state.

With a low and slow solar only( max 13 amps) recharge to full( determined by amperage at absorption voltage, after about 5 to 10 deep cycles, I notice voltage held during the next discharge starts sagging more and more each low and slow solar only recharge. Also my voltmeter during engine cranking drops lower and lower each first cold start of the day.

One high amp recharge( 40+ amps) from its most depleted state to truly full, and the performance is reset. This is not just becaise high amps heat the battery more and then that next discharge the battery is warmer and appears to have more capacity, as it performs well the next night too back at regular temperatures. Afer a high amp recharge to full, Voltage held under loads is impressive once again. It can accept more amps for longer before attaining absorption voltage, Amps at 14.7v taper to 0.5% of capacity in less time, and it cranks my engine with more gusto holding a higher voltage when doing so. This is repeatable, predictable and I am approaching 550 deep cycles on this battery over 36 months, and expect at least 800.

Stockrex, be careful with the universal 12v DC to DC power supply if your laptop can exceed 60 watts.

Multiply output DCamps times output DC voltage listed on the provided power brick, to get the maximum watts.

The Ciggy plug will likely melt at some point, well before the fuse blows. The Stink can be bad and stick around.



I use a 90 watt PWR+ DC to DC car adapter for my Dell. replaced the 12v plug twice before hardwiring it to fuse block and using 30 amp anderson powerpoles as the connector.

I would watch the volts at battery terminals with an actual voltmeter while the schumacher is charging on the AGM setting closely. My schumacher sc2500a will, about 20% of the time on AGM setting, exceed 15 volts on 12 or 25 amp setting, 2 amps on my current battery I chrge with it, cannot get voltage above 15 no matter how long it is applied.
On the other two settings, Standard or deep cycle, it will exceed 16 volts about 75% of the time. Ambient temperature plays no part in when it decides to get masochistic with the voltage.

The Display on my schumacher no longer works at all. i use a wattmeter on the DC output to see what it is doing and press one button 3 times for AGM, and the other button once for 2 amps twice for 12 amps and 3 times for 25 amps and verify output with the linked product below.

https://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance/dp/B00C1BZSYO

These wattmeters might, or might not be so great reading low currents.

I do not use the schumacher on any battery i care about, and I do use the AGM setting on a flooded battery as it will be less likely to shoot to 16+ volts, and it will float at 13.6v instead of 13.2v. It inevitably drops to float voltage too soon, so 13.6v float at least has a battery chance to get the battery near full charge before I unplug charger, unless I want to trick and restart the charger instead.

Keep in mind that recharging a regularly deeply cycled battery is different than top charging a lightly discharged battery here or there. Those using AGM's as starting batteries and never deeply discharging them need not freak out over not meeting the ideal recharge regimen. Those who do deeply cycle them and who do not recharge them fully properly and occasionally at a higher amperage rate, will likely not get their money's worth out of the battery.

The High$$ AGMS in deep cycle duty are only worth it if the effort is going to be made to rechagrge them according to their desires. The lower$$ AGMS can hurt less to replace more often and one can not shiv so much of a git when they become capacity compromised all too soon.

I'd aim for a charging source that can achieve no less than 20% of the capacity of the AGM battery, 20 amps per 100AH of capacity, and I would definitely use an Ammeter and learn how to force the charger to reseek absorption voltage. this requires loadig the battery with a larger load until voltage drops below 12.8v, then restart charger then remove load.

If one gets an Odyssey or Northstar AGM and deeply cycles them, I would aim for 40 amps per100Ah of capacity. Northstar documentation does not list any minimum charge rate, but Mine performs so much better when it get high amp recharged and I find it to be an impressive battery since i do charge it hard and fast and full, often. If I charge it slower to full daily, I notice voltage sagging more and more each cycle without the high amp recharge , and go out of my way to apply n less than 40 amps when it is most depleted, and try to do so before the sun rises and begins filling it slowly.
 
Schumacher chargers are not suitable for AGMs, despite having a AGM setting. I have an SnS 15A charger that boiled my Optima Yellowtop (vent caps started hissing) when the pertanage readout read 80%. Stuck my DMM to the leads and it was stuffing 15.6v into the battery. It was a used battery anyways.

I went all out and bought a Solar PL2520 which has a 20A setting to satisfy the Diehard Platinum battery in my truck and does not go over 14.7V when doing so.

The Odyssey is an oddball where it can take higher amps. Deka and Optima AGMs explicitly tell you 10A max when charging.
 
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