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2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? #4394622
05/02/17 10:36 AM
05/02/17 10:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline OP
FordCapriDriver  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
When my friend who has multiple Vintage VWs told me that he put 2 stroke oil ( 1% ) in his fuel i was a bit baffled, apparently it protects the fuel systems on classic cars that were supposed to run with leaded gasoline, and also helps against the negative effects of modern fuels with ethanol in them, and since my car never had hardened valve seats put into the cylinder heads i wonder if this could be a good idea.
He uses API TC Smokeless 2 stroke oil.
Thoughts?


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394640
05/02/17 11:02 AM
05/02/17 11:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,117
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,117
Waco, TX
Lots of folks use 2 stroke oil as an upper cylinder lube. I saw in someone's signature on here they run it somewhere around 400:1 in a new vehicle. I run it at 128:1 in my older Cummins because new ULSD diesel is a lot more "dry" (not as oily) as old diesel.

I can't comment on protecting your exhaust valve seats.
I'm sure there will be some benefit, just not sure how much.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394643
05/02/17 11:08 AM
05/02/17 11:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,806
Texas
440Magnum Offline
440Magnum  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,806
Texas
The theory is that it can help with valve recession... but I'm not convinced. 2-stroke lube just results in a lot of carbon being produced during combustion that shouldn't normally be produced in a clean-running 4-stroke engine. While oil in the incoming mixture might theoretically lubricate the intake valve seat, no liquid 2-stroke oil is ever going to find its way to the exhaust valve seat because its going to get burned during combustion, and the EXHAUST seat is the one that usually burns. Adding carbon to the combustion chamber is just going to lead to hot-spots that aggravate pre-ignition and detonation, so I think the negatives more than offset any (theoretical, un-proven) benefits.


'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394651
05/02/17 11:20 AM
05/02/17 11:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline OP
FordCapriDriver  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
Is there any truth then that it could help itigate the effects of ethanol in classic cars fuel systems?
I mean right now i exclusively use BP Ultimate 98RON because i know it doesn't have any ethanol, but it would be nice not having to find the nearest BP station when you're far from home and running out of gas.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394652
05/02/17 11:22 AM
05/02/17 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 333
Cheshire, England
barryh Offline
barryh  Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 333
Cheshire, England
I've been adding 2 stroke oil to my motorcycle fuel in the ratio 1:640 for 5 years. It must be TCW3 which is the marine spec so that it will burn without leaving any ash deposits. Far from depositing carbon in the combustion chamber I see the opposite effect as over a long period of use the detergents in the oil have a noticeable cleaning effect.

As an amusing aside the F1 boys must have been at it as they are about to be banned from the engines deliberately burning their own lubricating oil.


Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394656
05/02/17 11:29 AM
05/02/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,756
Massachusetts
turtlevette Offline
turtlevette  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,756
Massachusetts
I don't know if you've been around any outboard engines, but they stink because of the burned oil in exhaust. Most 40+ year old engines that are run enough to wear their valve seats have already been rebuilt with hard seats. Those that haven't been are super low mile collectables that don't see enough run time to wear anything.


USA-1
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394675
05/02/17 12:00 PM
05/02/17 12:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,997
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,997
WI.
My Toyota's been on TC-w3 60k straight, honda 12k.


16 Civic Coupe Touring 38k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40 XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 146k
640:1 TCW-3
PP 5/30 XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394679
05/02/17 12:14 PM
05/02/17 12:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 333
Cheshire, England
barryh Offline
barryh  Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 333
Cheshire, England
Outboard engines are running a ratio of something like 1:33 so they may well stink. A ratio of 1:640 in a 4 stroke engine doesn't smell at all or show deposits in the exhaust. Besides the cleaning effect in the combustion chambers, the only other visual result is a very slight colouration of the spark plugs, not carbon deposits, just a subtle colour that you wouldn't normally see.

The only other firm evidence of an effect that I'm certain of is it eliminates mild pinging when I run what is a 98 Ron engine on 95 Ron. Can't explain the mechanism but it does.

Valve seats I don't make any claim about. I do have original cast iron seats and don't seem to suffer from valve recession on the evidence of no measurable change to valve clearances at an annual check. But that's only 3000 miles per year and there might be no change with or without adding TCW3.

I like to think there is going some lubricating effect on the carb slides but have no measurements to confirm one way or the other.


Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394690
05/02/17 12:27 PM
05/02/17 12:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline OP
FordCapriDriver  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,796
Balearic Islands , Spain
Well, i guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to just try it out.
I don't think my engine has much valve seat recession, i mean we did have leaded gas at the pump in Spain until January 1 2002 so the engine has been running fine un Unleaded for 15 years.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: Linctex] #4394765
05/02/17 02:31 PM
05/02/17 02:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,293
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,293
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Lots of folks use 2 stroke oil as an upper cylinder lube. I saw in someone's signature on here they run it somewhere around 400:1 in a new vehicle. I run it at 128:1 in my older Cummins because new ULSD diesel is a lot more "dry" (not as oily) as old diesel.

I can't comment on protecting your exhaust valve seats.
I'm sure there will be some benefit, just not sure how much.


define dry/oily.

I think youre mistaking it for lubricity due to the sulfur bound aromatics...


OP, yes it can provide some benefit by offering a minimal oil film on some parts potentially, as well as often including a fuel stabilizer, which is helpful for cars that sit a lot.

Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394837
05/02/17 04:17 PM
05/02/17 04:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,997
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,997
WI.
I run it 640:1 in everything 4 stroke I own, 10 quality engines all run perfect...save the nasty little oil diluter 1.5T


16 Civic Coupe Touring 38k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40 XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 146k
640:1 TCW-3
PP 5/30 XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394842
05/02/17 04:25 PM
05/02/17 04:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,805
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,805
Marshfield , MA
I know of a fellow whom I 've grown to respect in the 17 yrs I posted to him on the FSJ page. He used a tiny amount of TCW3 in the gas he put in his 401 V8 in a 70s Jeep Wagoneer. His hobby was taking the highest passes he could find in Colorado with the Wag. He did over 200 of them before he retired the Jeep. It is like MMO only different grin2


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394845
05/02/17 04:32 PM
05/02/17 04:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,997
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,997
WI.
I heard from someone here it's mostly kerosene with additives..was worried for Ca in the diluter but that's not included in TC-w3.

Last edited by dblshock; 05/02/17 04:32 PM.

16 Civic Coupe Touring 38k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40 XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 146k
640:1 TCW-3
PP 5/30 XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394882
05/02/17 05:37 PM
05/02/17 05:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,674
los angeles
daves66nova Offline
daves66nova  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,674
los angeles
I've read before that the only time you get recession on valves is when you run the engine at over 3500 rpm's or under hard loads. Just regular low rpm driving shouldn't hurt the seats, i don't think.


THIS SPACE FOR RENT, PLEASE PM ME.
Re: 2-Stroke oil in fuel for Classic cars? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4394888
05/02/17 05:53 PM
05/02/17 05:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
When my friend who has multiple Vintage VWs told me that he put 2 stroke oil ( 1% ) in his fuel
Thoughts?


1% seems quite a lot. OTOH I don't know why people pick 640:1 (why not, I suppose). Wouldn't have thought there was anything special about that ratio.

I've considered it, but

(a) I don't want to reduce my headroom on the HC emissions test.
(b) Although 2-stroke oil is still widely available here, finding stuff I knew met an ashless marine spec. might be difficult or impossible.

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