Toro VS Snapper

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Hello all.

My 20 year old Craftsman mower just died. The deck rotted out finally. I am in the market for a new walk behind self propelled mower. I have two mower dealers in town, a Toro and a Snapper dealer. So I am essentially looking at the residential line Recycler series from Toro and the residential Ninja series from Snapper.

Any thoughts on which way I should go for reliability and durability? Seems the Snapper has the largest engine, and looks to be closer to a commericial grade mower.
 
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
I like the sittable speed control on the snapper, both engine speed and mower speed are settable


That is a feature I dig as well. That and the cup holder, cause it gets hot in Iowa during the summer.
 
I have used both and some of it depends on lawn. Totally flat ground the Toro works pretty well but on hills the self propel is not as good as Snapper. Most people say the Toro's are better mulchers if that is important. Really can't go wrong with either. Build quality is cheaper than past but they still last and work quite well.
 
The Toro Recycler isn't as good as the Toro Super Recycler if you like to mulch. The Snapper comes with the most powerful engine on a 21" mower with 8.5 lb's of torque. So if there are times in the spring when the grass gets a bit tall before you can mow it because of days of rain, you wont regret the Snapper. The cup holder is a cool feature and I'm surprised it's not on other walk behinds?
 
If your engine is still good, find a roadside mower with a better deck and swap over your engine atop that deck. And also use the better handle bars. I did this for years(many yrs ago) when money was tight.......just saying!
 
I sold Snapper for many many years, so always am leaning toward snapper. I also sold Bolens, (when it was its own company) and Atlas, and some Ariens. I also repaired all makes, but my favorite was always the Snapper. If ease of repair, ruggedness, and availability of parts are important to you, Snapper always seemed the way to go.
 
Just be up front, I care for 3 yards in my neighborhood, including my own, totalling just short of 1 acre, which I mow weekly. Some of what I outline below may not apply to you if you are only mowing the standard 1/6 to 1/3 acre residential lawn.

I owned a Toro Recycler the past year, and recently sold it to purchase a Snapper Hi Vac. After subscribing to the benefits of mulching mowers 15 years ago, I never could get a mulching mower (tried several different mowers with all different blade designs available for each) to give me the single-pass cut quality I desired, so I finally gave up. Going forward I will run a standard side discharge and mow more often.

If you have hills, go for the Snapper or the Toro AWD. The Toro AWD has the blue handle in front of the personal pace handle bar which allows you to squeeze the personal pace handle to activate it rather than pushing. I did not find the AWD to be of any benefit over a standard RWD model, beyond having that blue handle. If the blue handle can be purchased separately and fitted to a standard RWD, go that route.

The Briggs EXi that came on my Toro was alright. I don't buy into the no oil changes marketing from Briggs, so I changed oil anyway. The air filter seemed to get dirty very quickly. Needed to change the air filter twice a year, and that is with blowing it out between mowings. The Briggs Professional engine air filters, from my previous experience with that air filter design, it can go a year before it even needs to be blown out under the same conditions, but I check it before each use regardless.

If you have to fit it in the trunk of a car with the trunk closed, the Toro is your mower. The handle bar folds easily, and it is lighter weight. The Snapper handlebar is not easily foldable because of the rigid speed selector rod, and it is heavier.

If you do not need to lift it frequently, the Snapper will give you a smoother experience. Between the Toro's lighter weight and seemingly shorter wheelbase (may be my imagination), the Toro transmitted more harshness(?) from uneven or rough ground back through the handlebars and up into my arms and shoulders. The Snapper just seems to glide across the same yards.

You should also consider your dealer, unless you work on the mowers yourself. The best euipment in the world is useless when it breaks if the dealer is useless. Make sure your dealer is certified to perform warranty work on both the mower AND the engine. Sounds ridiculous, I know. As it turned out, the dealer from whom I bought the Toro was not certified to perform warranty work on Briggs engines. If it had needed warranty work, I would have had to take it to his competition down the road -- the Snapper dealer. Fortunately the only warranty work I needed was a defective $5 valve cover gasket, which I replaced on my own.

Over all, the Snapper should last you much, much longer. I say "should" because, as with anything mechanical, you could always get a lemon. The design is decades old and people still run them 20, even 30 years later, just swapping the engines when they wear out. No matter how well I cared for the Toro Recycler, I only expected to get 3, maybe 4 years out of it before it got to a point where it was not cost effective to repair any longer vs buying new.

The better comparison would be the Snapper and the Toro Super Recycler, in terms of parts quality and potential longevity. The Toro Super Recyclers have metal wheel/drive assemblies which are greasable, whereas they are plastic and non-serviceable on the basic Recyclers.
 
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The Snapper Ninja has the largest engine because it needs it to spin the ninja blade. I have a 2011 model year Snapper Ninja Commercial 21". It's a nice mower, but it is heavy, long and the right hand (only) self-propel engagement lever is awkward at times. A full across hand bail would be better IMO. It's a decent mulcher and it is powerful, but it does not mulch as well as a toro super will. On a 10 scale for mulching ability, I'd give a Toro super a 10 and a Snapper ninja mulcher an 8. Snappers are legendary hi-vac mowers, not mulchers IMO. What Snappers do have going for them is the really nice friction disk self propel system. Aluminum decks are no longer a thing for Snapper either, which is another minus.

I don't know if Honda is on your radar, but a basic single speed self propelled HRS216SKA is an excellent mulch/side discharge mower. I still have one that I bought new in 1999 and currently keep as my backup mower. SUPER quiet, fuel efficient and light to fling around.
 
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^^ Good point on the Honda dwendt44.

My 2 pennies on them is they are a point above Snapper and one below Toro Supers for mulching performance. Honda probably beats out Toro in Consumer reports for everything else I would imagine.
 
Had a Toro recycler that was a powerhouse but it mulched poorly and when we bagged it was a chore because it required emptying so often.

Spent years looking for a mulching mower that wouldn't leave clumps or trails. Bought a twin blade Honda and never looked back. When I have bagged with it I can go about four times as long between emptying the bag because the tiny clippings pack in and the Honda seems to fill from the back of the bag rather than packing in at the mouth of the bag.

Never used a Toro Super Recycler but I hear they are great! If sounds like you want a mulcher so that may be worth a look. My father in law has a Snapper that bags great but mulches not so well. We have also had issues with the side handle to engage the self propelling. It seems to wear on the cable and it catches on stuff more often than one might think.
 
Nearest Honda dealer is 20 miles away, so I am not considering one. I can see the Snapper dealer from my driveway and the Toro dealer is just 2 miles down the road.
 
Quality of the DEALER is one of the most important things of choosing a mower in my opinion. I had many people buy from me rather than the other dealer down the street, because they only wanted me to work on their mower!
 
Is this for a flat yard? trimming? lots of obstacles?

I dont like real heavy mowers even self propel because I trim with mine.. and steering a big heavy 21" mower is alot more work than a light aluminum 21".

I had one of those antique tank snappers and it was a real workout to mow a hillside and around trees.. I'm sure the new ones arent that heavy but that is definitely part of my criteria now.
 
The Toro and Snapper are both great mowers. In my experience the Toros tend to mulch much better, while the Snapper Hi-Vac mowers are best for sucking up yard debris and leaves.

The self propel system is really personal preference. The Snapper is heavier duty, but the Toro is more user friendly with the Personal Pace system.

Hondas are extremely overpriced for what you get in a mower. The engines are great, but even the GCV series found in most Honda mowers isn't really a commercial grade engine. No ball bearing crankshaft or cast iron sleeve like the GX series Honda engines. The transmissions are also fairly weak on the Honda mowers, I've replaced a few of them and they are extremely expensive.

I fix small engines on the side, and after using a ton of different mowers my favorite is still a Toro Super Recycler with the Personal Pace system and a tried and true Briggs and Stratton flat head engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
Is this for a flat yard? trimming? lots of obstacles?

I dont like real heavy mowers even self propel because I trim with mine.. and steering a big heavy 21" mower is alot more work than a light aluminum 21".

I had one of those antique tank snappers and it was a real workout to mow a hillside and around trees.. I'm sure the new ones arent that heavy but that is definitely part of my criteria now.


No the lawn is flat with only a tree in front, a tree in back, and a shed.
 
IMO, the aluminum deck TORO Super Recycler is the best mulching mower on the market. It gives the smoothest and most even cut of any mulching mower, can mulch much taller/thicker and even damp grass effectively (and doesn't need big HP/Torque to do it), and has the best drive system. The one drawback of this mower is the alloy of aluminum that they are using, it is soft and subject to corrosion (yes, aluminum can also "rust") which limits it's potential life. The reason that they use this soft alloy is that harder more durable alloys are brittle and can crack and break at the thickness that they are using (to keep the weight down). The TORO 21" Commercial mowers do not have this corrosion problem because they use a different harder alloy of aluminum that is much thicker and MUCH heavier. It is "hands down" the best 21" commercial mower on the market IMO.
TORO's cheaper steel deck Recyclers mulch about 90% as good as the aluminum deck Super Recyclers but do not cut as smoothly/evenly, and the drive systems are not nearly as good or as durable. I personally dislike the personal pace "feature". Stay away from front wheel drive mowers and "high wheel" mowers. TORO owns Lawnboy and some of their mowers are green re-badged TOROs

The better, more expensive Snappers (Hi-Vac and Ninja) are the best vacuuming mowers on the market if you want to bag clippings (when using the Hi-Vac blade), but it's mulching capability is not nearly as good as TORO's Recyclers, even with the Ninja blade. It is also does not move/push/propel as well in tall/thick/dense turf because of it's rolled lip steel deck which isn't cut-out in the front like most other mowers. It's disk drive system is effective but very high maintenance. When mulching became the "all-the-rage", Snappers fell out of favor and couldn't effectively compete in the market place at their prices, which is why they went bankrupt.
The cheaper SP Series Snappers are essentially re-badged Murrays and aren't good mowers (Murrays have always been cheap junk mowers, which is why Murray went bankrupt).
If you didn't already know this, B&S bought the remnants of both Snapper and Murray out of bankruptcy court.
 
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Robenstein, one thing I haven't seen discussed in this thread is, how much do you want to spend? A new Toro super recycler starts at around $500 and a Snapper commercial mulcher is over $700 now.

I paid about $600 for my Snapper in 2011. Like said, Snapper isn't it's own company anymore. They've been owned by Briggs and Stratton since ~2010.

It's a beast. The drive system looks all Rube Goldberg on them and I've heard people say they are labor intensive, but I have not experienced that what so ever. In fact, I haven't had to touch the drive system on mine at all. Based on my usage I've got about 170-200hrs of use on my Snapper Ninja Commercial. Pics are from when I unboxed it:





 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
The Toro and Snapper are both great mowers. In my experience the Toros tend to mulch much better, while the Snapper Hi-Vac mowers are best for sucking up yard debris and leaves.

The self propel system is really personal preference. The Snapper is heavier duty, but the Toro is more user friendly with the Personal Pace system.

Hondas are extremely overpriced for what you get in a mower. The engines are great, but even the GCV series found in most Honda mowers isn't really a commercial grade engine. No ball bearing crankshaft or cast iron sleeve like the GX series Honda engines. The transmissions are also fairly weak on the Honda mowers, I've replaced a few of them and they are extremely expensive.

I fix small engines on the side, and after using a ton of different mowers my favorite is still a Toro Super Recycler with the Personal Pace system and a tried and true Briggs and Stratton flat head engine.



I agree, the Super Recycler is the best mulching mower on the market, better than the Honda twin-blades. I have one, and its great. If i bagged most of the time, however, i'd look more closely at the Honda. I agree with Jeep-man, the Honda HRX, HRR, etc all use GCV engines. You need to step into the HRC models to get the GXV engine with Iron cylinder sleeve, ball bearing crank-shaft, hardened crank, etc. The hydro transmissions in the Honda's are good, but very expensive if they break. If i was looking at a commercial duty 21" mower, I would get the Toro 22295 with the Honda 160GXV and the bullet proof and cheaper to repair Toro 3 speed transmission.
 
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