New QSUD spec sheet

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It's a 10W-30. 10W-30 oils always have very low NOACK. 20W-50 would be even lower. What's the fascination about NOACK? Base-oil quality is determined by both NOACK and CCS together. Find me a 5W-30 with the same NOACK and then that oil actually does have quality base oil.
 
5% NOACK is not unusual for a Group III+ 10W-30.

pcmo_noack_vs_ccs_800.jpg


hdeo_noack_vs_ccs_800.jpg


So, the NOACK is not just a function of base-oil quality but also the viscosity. Within a given base-oil quality (an API Group such as I, II, III, or IV), thicker the oil, less will be the evaporation hence less the NOACK. You can achieve the same NOACK for a Group II 20W-50 that you would be for a Group IV or GTL 5W-30.

In other words, NOACK doesn't directly indicate how well an oil cleans or how long an oil lasts. You can have a Group II 20W-50 with 5% NOACK but that won't be a cleaning or long-lasting oil. NOACK is only low because the base oil is thick and therefore evaporates less. It will still break down and cause oil deposits as any other Group II.
 
Originally Posted By: RichardS
5 is a pretty good number, right? Lower = better?


Yes lower is better and 5% is very low. That's why narrow viscosity grade oils are so great, given they give you enough cold starting for your climate.

Look at the Noack limits
For API SN it's 15%
For Dexos1 and ACEA A5/B5 or A3/B3/B4 it's 13%
For MB 229.5 or MB 229.51 it's 10%

Given the natural low Noack of oils like 10W30 it's a shame it's not considered a "modern" grade and it's not a Dexos grade.

Still 10W30 and 15W40 are still big in heavy duty HDEO oils. Yes the old 20W50 was low too, but not many people use that anymore.

Still not everybody here is scared to go old school, here is a recent (2017) UOA of GTX 20W50, and it did very well, only 1 ppm iron wear in 3000 miles. That is very low.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4325449/
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
That's why narrow viscosity grade oils are so great

It's not the narrow or wide viscosity grade that makes NOACK low or high. It's the "x" in xW-y, it's not the "y minus x."

For example 5W-20 is a narrower viscosity grade than 10W-30 but NOACK will be similar to 5W-30 for a given base-oil type.

See the plots I posted above.

Likewise 10W-30 and 10W-40 will have similar NOACK, despite the latter being a lot wider.

Again, how low the NOACK or how thick the oil alone doesn't determine oil quality. It's the type of the base oil that determines the oil quality. You will still get a dirtier engine with a Group II 20W-50 in comparison to a Group III 0W-20, even though the former could have a lower NOACK.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Gokhan's Shell graphs basically prove QSUD is GTL.

The plots I have are for CCS @ -20 and @ -30 °C. The datasheet has CCS @ -25 °C. If you interpolate, it looks more like plain Group III. GTL or PAO would have about 1% NOACK for that CCS according to the plots.

However, Shell's GTL doesn't seem to be of high quality and the NOACK values we have been seeing with Pennzoil Platinum PurePlus have been very high for a GTL. But then GTL is also classified as a form of Group III. So, it could still be a GTL with good cleaning and oxidation properties.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Gokhan's Shell graphs basically prove QSUD is GTL.

That's not clear. It could also be plain Group III. The plots I have are for CCS @ -20 and @ -30 °C. The datasheet has CCS @ -25 °C. If you interpolate, it looks more like plain Group III than GTL to me.


I love how you always speculate. Saying "it LOOKS more like"

Present actual facts please

Thanks

Another reason why I like reading SR5's info instead of your heresay
 
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Gokhan's Shell graphs basically prove QSUD is GTL.

That's not clear. It could also be plain Group III. The plots I have are for CCS @ -20 and @ -30 °C. The datasheet has CCS @ -25 °C. If you interpolate, it looks more like plain Group III than GTL to me.

I love how you always speculate. Saying "it LOOKS more like"

Present actual facts please

Thanks

Another reason why I like reading SR5's info instead of your heresay

Is reading the CCS value from the datasheet and inserting into the plot to see if it's Group III or GTL speculation?

The datasheet says CCS @ -25 °C is 3750 cP. Insert this into the first plot and you get NOACK about 2% for GTL. However, that graph is for -30 °C. CCS would be a lot more at -30 °C than at -25 °C. So, this would give a NOACK between 0 to 1% for a 10W-30 with 3750 cP CCS (@ -25 °C) made of GTL, according to the plot. Datasheet says 5%, which puts it in Group III rather than GTL.

However, Shell's GTL has been of low quality and of high NOACK as I said. They operate their gas-to-liquid reactors in Qatar quick and dirty just to reach Group III quality instead of what GTL is really capable of. So, it could still be cheap, low-quality Shell Qatar GTL.
 
Basically SOPUS knows this stuff. PP/PU appear to be higher quality products but we don't know how much GTL they use in QS stuff and the quality
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: SR5
That's why narrow viscosity grade oils are so great

It's not the narrow or wide viscosity grade that makes NOACK low or high. It's the "x" in xW-y, it's not the "y minus x."


Yes I agree, but I was just using the vernacular, but thanks for making it clear for new readers.

Sometimes it's good to look at real finished products all from the same company and at the same product level. Here is the Valvoline SynPower PDS which lists Noack volatility %.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/synpower.pdf

Noack

ILSAC Grades
0W20 = 12 %
5W20 = 10 %
5W30 = 10 %
10W30 = 10 %

Euro Grades
5W30 = 9 % (CCS = 6100 cP @ -30C)
5W30 = 10% (CCS = 5800 cP @ -30C)
5W40 = 10%
0W40 = 9%
20W50 = 8%

So going back to the OP's point, yes I do think 5% is good for a finished and real oil product. I'm also a little surprised that the SynPower 10W30 isn't a little better, but I will get over it. The best Noack here, is the synthetic 20W50 but no big surprises there.
 
This was link was posted in a recent thread, and it's Noack figures are given to one decimal place. Probably a better data set to look at.
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/valvoline_full_synthetic_with_maxlife_technology.pdf

It's for Valvoline Full Synthetic with MaxLife (2016)
noack % for ILSAC grades
0W20 = 11.4 %
5W20 = 9.3 %
5W30 = 10.2 %
10W30 = 6.3 %

That is more like what I would expect in a finished product from a good name brand company.
 
Molecular percentage of gtl based oil is
85% isoparaffin
15% naphthenic

Group ii and iii are about
40% isoparaffin
60% naphthenic

Sds data sheets indicate qsud 10w30

Hazardous components
Chemical Name Synonyms CAS-No. Concentration (%)
Distillates (Fischer -
Tropsch), heavy, C18-50 –
branched, cyclic and linear
Distillates (Fischer-
Tropsch), heavy,
C18-50-branched,
cyclic and linear
848301-69-9. 0 - 90

Zero to ninty percent
 
Valvoline synpower 10w30 noack eq. 10
Valvoline synpower 20w50 noack eq. 8
Valvoline maxlife 10w30 noack eq. 6.3

Hats off to valvoline for providing the data.

But one cannot assume that all 10w30s or heavier will have super low noack.
 
The old Ultra had 5% to 6% NOACK for 5w20, 5w30 and 10w30.

The new QSUD data sheets have everything except HTHSv on them. I can't see any Pennzoil data sheets as up to date as Quaker States. Would be interesting to see if the PP or PUP 10w30 are as good as the QSUD 10w30.
 
"Given the natural low Noack of oils like 10W30 it's a shame it's not considered a "modern" grade and it's not a Dexos grade"

Agreed...but not all ILSAC 10w30 oils are low NOACK. QSUD 10w30 is an exceptional ILSAC at 5.

PU and PUP 10w30 was stated at NOACK 5 or 6 until SOPUS removed it from their data sheets. QSUD 10w30 has that big slug of Molybdenum where PU and PUP do not. QSUD 10w30 would be the only ILSACrap oil I would consider.
 
QSUD 10W30 good for non - turbo GDI engines : Low NOACK + Low VII"s = less intake valve deposits .
 
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