What kind of respirator do you need for doing automotive painting? I have a small 1.5 car garage that I plan on painting some motorcycle fiberglass fairing in. I have read that only a fresh air unit will protect you, is that true? Or overkill? I know safety first but those things are 1K dollars, more than the fairing and paint combined.
Automotive paint and respirator
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Depends on what kind of paint you are using. Go to a commercial paint store and ask. Some of the paints are real nasty.
When I've painted in the past I only used a fresh air unit. The chemical soup that is produced by paint is not something I want in my lungs.
For small paint jobs it's easier and safer just to let a pro do it.
For small paint jobs it's easier and safer just to let a pro do it.
You have a couple of choices. Most paint booths use supplied air. It's just that, a full face respirator and compressed air with a regulator being pumped into your face mask. Lot of painters like it because it's like have a cool breeze flowing over your face and keeps you cool. The positive pressure created in the face mask helps keep all the particulates and organics out. If you don't have that, then you'd go to a half face respirator or still, a full face respirator. Here is where most people get confused, the cartriges. With painting, you going to have particulates, dust, mist and vapors. Those simply mean particle size in microns. You will need at least a particulate filter on your face mask to protect you from the dust and mist. You will also need an organic cartridge. These are simply activated carbon cartridges. Activated carbon is the cheapest and most efficient way of getting rid of volatile organic carbons, that's the smell the comes off the paint, if it is non-latex based. Most people don't know this, but there is some enamel paint mixed in with latex paints, just very small percentages. Those cloth looking, rubber band behind the head type of mask are only for particulates and will do nothing for VOC's. If you paint booth has great ventilation, I'm talking over 100cfm blowing past you and you can stay "upwind" while your painting, then you may be able to get away with a particulate type of filter, but it's up to you. As some the other posters said, paints are really nasty and you need to avoid any possible contact with them as best you can and a particulate filter only is not best achievable control technology in my book. The filters also need to be approved by OSHA and/or NIOSH, I forget the order of things.
"Conventional" paints (i.e. paints before about 1980) were bad enough, having toluene and other things which were very hard on your lungs and liver, but it was well established that a charcoal mask would filter those well.
Current paints use hardeners call isocyanates, which are truly nasty (containing cyanide). Conventional wisdom has it that a charcoal cartridge mask is not effective against isocyanates, and these warnings are prominently displayed on these types of paints. I know someone however who swears he has talked to the manufacturers and they will privately say that a charcoal mask is OK. I tend to doubt this, given the warnings, but I suppose its possible that there could be a manufacturer's strict public position, and a looser private one.
I have painted isocyanates with a charcoal mask under well ventilated conditions, but I don't recommend it and won't be doing it again without a supplied air unit. You can get supplied air units which work off your compressor and filter the oil out of the airstream (supposedly!!). I have also known people to simply use scuba tanks, but that presents it's own set of problems with manueverability and possible damage to surrounding objects.
Whatever you do, do not use a paper or cloth mask!!! They do NOTHING for fumes. Also, if it is an attached garage, make sure no one inhabits the house while you paint, or any time sooon after. Also, make sure any pilot lights or other sources of ignition (like your air compressor) are located well outside the fume area.
And then there is the issue of protecting yourself from absorbing it through the skin....
Current paints use hardeners call isocyanates, which are truly nasty (containing cyanide). Conventional wisdom has it that a charcoal cartridge mask is not effective against isocyanates, and these warnings are prominently displayed on these types of paints. I know someone however who swears he has talked to the manufacturers and they will privately say that a charcoal mask is OK. I tend to doubt this, given the warnings, but I suppose its possible that there could be a manufacturer's strict public position, and a looser private one.
I have painted isocyanates with a charcoal mask under well ventilated conditions, but I don't recommend it and won't be doing it again without a supplied air unit. You can get supplied air units which work off your compressor and filter the oil out of the airstream (supposedly!!). I have also known people to simply use scuba tanks, but that presents it's own set of problems with manueverability and possible damage to surrounding objects.
Whatever you do, do not use a paper or cloth mask!!! They do NOTHING for fumes. Also, if it is an attached garage, make sure no one inhabits the house while you paint, or any time sooon after. Also, make sure any pilot lights or other sources of ignition (like your air compressor) are located well outside the fume area.
And then there is the issue of protecting yourself from absorbing it through the skin....
here is the short version,
you need a mask that filters organic vapors. 3M is one of many manufacturers that make them. discuss masks with the same people you buy the paint from.
you need a mask that filters organic vapors. 3M is one of many manufacturers that make them. discuss masks with the same people you buy the paint from.
Msa and 3M are proven mask. Make SURE to get the right ! The filters will be useless if(MASK IS TO BIG) there is too much gap(COMMON SENSE). Most folks fall in the medium size.
You need an ORGANIC VAPOR cartridge filter. If all goes well, the particle size will be in the million per say to speak...cleaner than breathing in freeway traffic slow down.
When you bend, turn and the mask sort of slips it's grip on a prolong bases....yes, a fresh air unit is a very safety caution...for professional usage.
You need an ORGANIC VAPOR cartridge filter. If all goes well, the particle size will be in the million per say to speak...cleaner than breathing in freeway traffic slow down.
When you bend, turn and the mask sort of slips it's grip on a prolong bases....yes, a fresh air unit is a very safety caution...for professional usage.
I do not paint often enough invest in a fresh air system. I use a 3M dispossable respirator. As long as you are not useing cynide based paints you will not have any real issues. The solvents that soak into your skin are a bigger Hazard. Most enamels and laquers do not reqire a lot in the way of filtration.
Two good links, which corroborate each other:
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...anates+charcoal+mask&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
Among other things - describes the dangers of hobbyists using charcoal respirators, particularly from filters exposed to the air.
http://www.binks.com/products/display14_2.asp
The meaningful part - "Warning: Binks Millennium paint spray respirators (charcoal filter)are not to be used with urethane paints or other paints containing di-isocyanates.
Di-isocyanates have low odor threshold and are not easily detected by smell. A dangerous level of di-isocyanates can break through a charcoal filter cartridge before the user is able to smell it. Painters using such paints must use an air-supplied respirator."
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...anates+charcoal+mask&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
Among other things - describes the dangers of hobbyists using charcoal respirators, particularly from filters exposed to the air.
http://www.binks.com/products/display14_2.asp
The meaningful part - "Warning: Binks Millennium paint spray respirators (charcoal filter)are not to be used with urethane paints or other paints containing di-isocyanates.
Di-isocyanates have low odor threshold and are not easily detected by smell. A dangerous level of di-isocyanates can break through a charcoal filter cartridge before the user is able to smell it. Painters using such paints must use an air-supplied respirator."
Never go with smell! I mean if the specs on the filter says so many hrs of usage, you toss it.
You CAN'T smell chemicals with an ORGANIC filters. It's clean! Once smell is detected...Your EXPOSED!
What Binks Millenniom is saying is what?
IF YOU SMELL THE CHEMICALS ONCE YOU ARE EXPOSED!!!
YOU NEVER GO WITH SMELL BECAUSE ONCE YOU SMELL IT YOUR EXPOSED!!!!
I think a filter is made so you don't smell it and Binks Millennium is saying you have to smell the chemical if it's working. It just don't work that way. You BETTER NOT SMELL IT!
There is a time limit...so many hours the filter is good for because an ORGANIC FILTER IS SO FINE IT HAS THE LOWEST TIME INTERVAL OF ALL FILTERS!!
You CAN'T smell chemicals with an ORGANIC filters. It's clean! Once smell is detected...Your EXPOSED!
What Binks Millenniom is saying is what?
IF YOU SMELL THE CHEMICALS ONCE YOU ARE EXPOSED!!!
YOU NEVER GO WITH SMELL BECAUSE ONCE YOU SMELL IT YOUR EXPOSED!!!!
I think a filter is made so you don't smell it and Binks Millennium is saying you have to smell the chemical if it's working. It just don't work that way. You BETTER NOT SMELL IT!
There is a time limit...so many hours the filter is good for because an ORGANIC FILTER IS SO FINE IT HAS THE LOWEST TIME INTERVAL OF ALL FILTERS!!
Yes, that is what Binks is saying.
No, this is why they say NOT to use for isocyanates, because smell is not an indicator.
Exactly. Again, why not to use them for i/cyanates. As you say, by the time you smell it, it is too late.
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