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Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382160 04/18/17 02:58 AM
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Shannow Online Content
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Wow...

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382165 04/18/17 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Bearing wear (lead) doesn't seem to have improved with 0W-40. Therefore, viscosity of 0W-20 seems sufficient for this application to prevent bearing oil-film breakdown.


Seems a bit inconclusive since the levels for chromium (rings), aluminum (pistons & cam journals) and lead (main & rod bearings) went up in the 0W-20 run dated 9/7/15 compared to the 0W-20 run dated 2/22/14. The 0W-20 run dated 9/7/15 also shows higher in those same metals compared to the 0W-40 run.

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: 4WD] #4382170 04/18/17 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: 4WD
And there were 20's ...



I want!

Heads are rolling over this thread.


2011 Odyssey Touring Elite 80k mi. M1 EP, 0W-20, FU
2008 Mustang GT 81k mi. Edge EP (Gold) 5W-20, FU

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382175 04/18/17 04:26 AM
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flow doesn't lubricate...AEHaas never ever could provide any supportive evidence on flow=lubrication, nor could one of his keenest adherants.

As the the test methodology here, there's no back to backs, or even repeat testing, i.e. 0W20, 0W40, 0W20. 0W40, 0W20 to see if the correlations even hold...without a possible (or confirmed) coolant leak...then there's the assumptions on what the metals in the oil actually mean.

Pretty conclusive conclusion given the above, eh ?

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382177 04/18/17 04:37 AM
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I'm with Shannow on this. Regardless of whether the test showed 0w40 better or 0w20 better, it's very hard to prove anything with such small sample sizes.

Just too many variables. I encourage the OP to make this thread on going. Give us more results and try to stay neutral. One scenario is that they both end up being rather equal and you pick 0w20 for fuel economy. But just one run off each.... give us more. Switch brands if you desire but keep it 0w20 vs 0w40.


95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382180 04/18/17 04:45 AM
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Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382182 04/18/17 04:53 AM
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Interesting read. I always thought you needed to run at least two to three runs of the same oil/grade, in a mechanically sound engine then make the switch and repeat before coming to any conclusions. The problem is it would take a very long time for most of us to complete the testing. I'm with Shannow on this as well.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382189 04/18/17 05:13 AM
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You've run UOA on a 30+ year old engine with mechanical problems and 260,000 miles on it?

There are so many uncontrolled variables here that your UOA don't demonstrate anything. Certainly, a few PPM on one metal in this older, failing engine are not the "final verdict".

Last edited by Astro14; 04/18/17 05:15 AM.

32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382192 04/18/17 05:22 AM
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Some people claim that Mobil 1 UOA have more iron. Cleaning out what lesser oils leave behind possibly.


1992 Toyota Pickup--AmazonBasics Conventional--10W-30--Toyota 90915YZZD1
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382206 04/18/17 05:53 AM
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Amazing, simply amazing.

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382213 04/18/17 06:00 AM
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All I see is extremely strong conclusions in light of very weak "evidence".


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 31k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 171k miles
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382222 04/18/17 06:08 AM
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Iron went up by 50%, but chromium went down by 62%, so M1 0W40 wins.

EOD


2014 Forester XT, 105000 miles
Last Change;
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Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382228 04/18/17 06:17 AM
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Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Shannow] #4382236 04/18/17 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Shannow


Did you not note my End Of Discussion post...hmmmm???
;^)

The copper levels in those UOAs look horrifying to me, particularly with the M1 when the engine is new. I know some engines will read high copper when new, but they still look nuts with Amsoil when the engine has over 30kmiles on it. Was that just the nature of that engine, maybe due to an oil cooler or something like that?
Interesting that they found that Amsoil thickened so much...M1 has the (deserved?) reputation for shearing, and it seemed that even the promotional materials for M1 AP showed it losing viscosity faster than the oils to which it was being compared. But, XOM claimed that the catastrophic thickening would occur much later with the AP, hence the 1 year/20kmile claims.


2014 Forester XT, 105000 miles
Last Change;
PP 5w30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #4382239 04/18/17 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Oil consumption with TGMO 0W-20 SN was small thanks to new valve-stem oil seals -- about 0.3 quarts in 5,000 miles. The last fill was Mobil 1 (M1) 0W-40 SN (older, non-FS formula). Oil consumption stayed the same or perhaps increased slightly to about 0.4 quarts in 5,000 miles. I was surprised that thicker oil didn't improve the consumption -- in fact made it slightly worse.


Did you replace PCV valve and piston ring when valve-stem oil seals replaced ?

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