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Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Shannow] #5052203 03/23/19 08:07 PM
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Gokhan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Shannow
Alas, the laptop failed to undergo the latest Win 10 update, and doesn't even boot anymore, so that's gone.

Download the latest version of Windows 10 from the Microsoft site. It can either be put on a DVD or USB flash drive. Then, boot from the media you created and do a reinstall (upgrade, not a fresh copy).


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 4,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5052352 03/24/19 12:52 AM
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0w20’s the Devil.

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: PimTac] #5052401 03/24/19 05:19 AM
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4WD Offline
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Yes … used to run 5w20 PG in our Fusion Hybrid … but no longer at Walmart here …
That 2.0L has +/- 110k now … so about to try M1 EP 5w30 to use some stash …

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: OVERKILL] #5057810 03/29/19 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Are you going to cut open your oil filter after this OCI? Be interesting if the M1 EP frees some particulate like it did with my Expedition.

Do you think the combination of the PAO/ester-based M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS and oversized full-synthetic Fram Ultra XG3600 has been cleaning the carbon-deposit buildup in my engine? The improvement in the way my car drives has been surreal.

I think I have found the winning combination of oil and filter. If I had a new car that recommended thinner oil, I would use the same.

The UOA performance remains to be seen.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 4,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5057836 03/29/19 02:16 PM
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4WD Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Are you going to cut open your oil filter after this OCI? Be interesting if the M1 EP frees some particulate like it did with my Expedition.

Do you think the combination of the PAO/ester-based M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS and oversized full-synthetic Fram Ultra XG3600 has been cleaning the carbon-deposit buildup in my engine? The improvement in the way my car drives has been surreal.

I think I have found the winning combination of oil and filter. If I had a new car that recommended thinner oil, I would use the same.

The UOA performance remains to be seen.


I still wonder if the intent of M1 AP was to draw more attention to (better value) M1 EP …
I’m using the same oil as you in two 355H/383T V8’s

Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5057840 03/29/19 02:19 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Are you going to cut open your oil filter after this OCI? Be interesting if the M1 EP frees some particulate like it did with my Expedition.

Do you think the combination of the PAO/ester-based M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS and oversized full-synthetic Fram Ultra XG3600 has been cleaning the carbon-deposit buildup in my engine? The improvement in the way my car drives has been surreal.

I think I have found the winning combination of oil and filter. If I had a new car that recommended thinner oil, I would use the same.

The UOA performance remains to be seen.

What is it? 40hp more? 50lb-ft more?


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (BMW TPT 5W30+OE filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5057843 03/29/19 02:23 PM
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anndel Offline
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Hmmm, old post but hope you still have this car. If it were mine, I would go with 20W-50 since it doesn't need thin oils for the VVTi.


1993 Toyota 4x4 p/u, 2.4L 22RE 4 cyl - M1 EP 10W-30, Fram UG Filter
2005 Toyota Avalon XL, 3.5L V6, Amsoil XL 5W-30, Amsoil Filter
2014 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L V6, Amsoil SS 5W-30, Yota OEM Filter
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5057862 03/29/19 02:40 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Are you going to cut open your oil filter after this OCI? Be interesting if the M1 EP frees some particulate like it did with my Expedition.

Do you think the combination of the PAO/ester-based M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS and oversized full-synthetic Fram Ultra XG3600 has been cleaning the carbon-deposit buildup in my engine? The improvement in the way my car drives has been surreal.

I think I have found the winning combination of oil and filter. If I had a new car that recommended thinner oil, I would use the same.

The UOA performance remains to be seen.


I don't know, but I've had excellent results with the AFE products in our Expedition (zero consumption) and will run the EP going forward in our new RAM, which is the current fill. Do you intend on cutting your filter open? I'd suggest doing so, as that may answer your question.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: 4WD] #5057921 03/29/19 03:56 PM
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Gokhan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by 4WD
I still wonder if the intent of M1 AP was to draw more attention to (better value) M1 EP …
I’m using the same oil as you in two 355H/383T V8’s

M1 AP 0W-20 has similar PAO levels as M1 EP 0W-20 but other AP grades have a lot less PAO than both the vanilla M1 and M1 EP. Looking at MSDSs alone, we can't rule out POE esters or alkylated naphthalene (AN) but I wouldn't count on the base-oil quality of M1 AP for grades other than 0W-20.

However, various studies have shown that the rate of the antioxidant treatment has an equally large effect on the oil oxidation and OCI length. Therefore, the theory has that the M1 AP has more antioxidant than the M1 EP, which in turn has more antioxidant than the vanilla M1.

Here is the table that lists the A_Harman index as well as the PAO and GTL content for selected oils. POE and AN is not shown. For Exxon Mobil oils, if everything is blank, it's mostly Group III or the balance is Group III if the base oil percentages add to less than 70% or so.

The VII column is equal to 1 - A_Harman index. Divide it by two to get the rough percentage of the VII treatment rate; however, actual VII treatment rate depends on the type of the VII -- on its ability to increase the viscosity and its resistance to temporary shear.

[Linked Image]


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 4,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: OVERKILL] #5057928 03/29/19 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't know, but I've had excellent results with the AFE products in our Expedition (zero consumption) and will run the EP going forward in our new RAM, which is the current fill. Do you intend on cutting your filter open? I'd suggest doing so, as that may answer your question.

Is it worth getting my saw dirty? Can you tell if they are the deposits removed by the oil? Do you have pictures?


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 4,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5057992 03/29/19 04:59 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't know, but I've had excellent results with the AFE products in our Expedition (zero consumption) and will run the EP going forward in our new RAM, which is the current fill. Do you intend on cutting your filter open? I'd suggest doing so, as that may answer your question.

Is it worth getting my saw dirty? Can you tell if they are the deposits removed by the oil? Do you have pictures?



Sure, it looked like this:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5058020 03/29/19 05:26 PM
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Thanks, that looks like a lot of dirt. Do you regularly look inside your oil filters? Was it different before this OCI?


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 4,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5058032 03/29/19 05:42 PM
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That does seem like a lot but then again I’ve never cut open a filter. I always assumed any dirt would be very tiny and sludgy.

Gokhan, I am planning on running the EP on my next change coming up here soon so these assessments are interesting.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5058060 03/29/19 06:29 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Thanks, that looks like a lot of dirt. Do you regularly look inside your oil filters? Was it different before this OCI?

It's been like 10 years now but IIRC, there was nothing of significance until I started running M1 0w-40 in it? Don't hold me to that though. I don't recall getting much, if anything, in the filters from the Petro-Canada oils, but M1 0w-40 stirred this stuff up and it continued when I switched to the AFE 0w-30, which I ran for several OCI's and this tapered off and stopped after like 5 OCI's.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict [Re: Gokhan] #5058108 03/29/19 07:28 PM
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AFE = the younger brother of AME ?


R12 in the summer, Webasto in the winter, and cassette tapes all year.
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