Go look at the back panel image in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359262/2/Rotella_no_longer_gas_engine_r JASO MA is gas engine rating, just not API
The new Rotella T5 and T6 no longer gas rated?
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Go look at the back panel image in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359262/2/Rotella_no_longer_gas_engine_r JASO MA is gas engine rating, just not API
The API Sx ratings are nice to see and is good news for older cars, but say the stuff is API SG (1988).. could that cause harm to cats in say an API SL era vehicle?
Go look at the back panel image in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359262/2/Rotella_no_longer_gas_engine_r JASO MA is gas engine rating, just not API
The API Sx ratings are nice to see and is good news for older cars, but say the stuff is API SG (1988).. could that cause harm to cats in say an API SL era vehicle?
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
+1. Between the hysterics of Ford, and Shell dropping gas-engine service approval (without any public info campaign), they've made a complete mess of the transition to CK-4.
Personally, I wouldn't have a lot of concern using an E7, E9 HDEO in a gasoline engine, at least for most circumstances. If I were comfortable running an out of spec A3/B4 in an engine, I'd generally be comfortable using E7, E9 in it, SM or SN or not. That's by no means an endorsement or recommendation, but how I'd go about things if pressed. Nonetheless, I really don't see any concerns with using the E6 type lubricants like the Shell Rotella Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, or Delo's 5w-30, or Castrol's either (theirs isn't SM or SN, for some reason). While they don't have the elevated phosphorus, at least they do have the elevated HTHS. For those that can get VR-1, at least that's another option. Up here, certain HDEOs in oddball viscosities aren't actually certified at all, and may have elevated phosphorus levels.
I would agree, however, that the new bottles should have waited for the new labels. No one except a BITOGer is going to notice the difference, and even most of us would miss it, except for the fact that we know about this.
BrocLuno: SM isn't technically obsolete. GF-4 is obsolete, but SM is still current.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
CK-4 does have a little lower SA limit.
How much as it changed? I know that E6 and E9 already have limits of 1, and the big players already have E7, E9, or E6, E7, E9, or some combination thereof, as far back as CJ-4. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40's SA remains at 1 from CJ-4 to CK-4.
+1. Between the hysterics of Ford, and Shell dropping gas-engine service approval (without any public info campaign), they've made a complete mess of the transition to CK-4.
Personally, I wouldn't have a lot of concern using an E7, E9 HDEO in a gasoline engine, at least for most circumstances. If I were comfortable running an out of spec A3/B4 in an engine, I'd generally be comfortable using E7, E9 in it, SM or SN or not. That's by no means an endorsement or recommendation, but how I'd go about things if pressed. Nonetheless, I really don't see any concerns with using the E6 type lubricants like the Shell Rotella Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, or Delo's 5w-30, or Castrol's either (theirs isn't SM or SN, for some reason). While they don't have the elevated phosphorus, at least they do have the elevated HTHS. For those that can get VR-1, at least that's another option. Up here, certain HDEOs in oddball viscosities aren't actually certified at all, and may have elevated phosphorus levels.
I would agree, however, that the new bottles should have waited for the new labels. No one except a BITOGer is going to notice the difference, and even most of us would miss it, except for the fact that we know about this.
BrocLuno: SM isn't technically obsolete. GF-4 is obsolete, but SM is still current.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
CK-4 does have a little lower SA limit.
How much as it changed? I know that E6 and E9 already have limits of 1, and the big players already have E7, E9, or E6, E7, E9, or some combination thereof, as far back as CJ-4. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40's SA remains at 1 from CJ-4 to CK-4.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
CK-4 does have a little lower SA limit.
How much as it changed? I know that E6 and E9 already have limits of 1, and the big players already have E7, E9, or E6, E7, E9, or some combination thereof, as far back as CJ-4. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40's SA remains at 1 from CJ-4 to CK-4.
CK-4 has similar maximum SA limit of 1% as a CJ-4 , not lower.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
CK-4 does have a little lower SA limit.
How much as it changed? I know that E6 and E9 already have limits of 1, and the big players already have E7, E9, or E6, E7, E9, or some combination thereof, as far back as CJ-4. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40's SA remains at 1 from CJ-4 to CK-4.
CK-4 has similar maximum SA limit of 1% as a CJ-4 , not lower.
Thanks. I hadn't checked, but knew what the ACEA E6 and E9 limits were.
Does it really matter if it's not rated for gas engines? Can't you just use it regardless of gas engine rating? Isn't it the properties that matter and not the government designation?
It seems to me that if it does the job that's what matters. Who cares if the government gives you their nod of approval?
Am I missing something here?
It seems to me that if it does the job that's what matters. Who cares if the government gives you their nod of approval?
Am I missing something here?
Originally Posted By: Carlostrece
Does it really matter if it's not rated for gas engines? Can't you just use it regardless of gas engine rating? Isn't it the properties that matter and not the government designation?
It's not a government designation, but read my post above. I wouldn't have a problem, generally speaking. The SM or SN on most HDEOs is, really, more of an afterthought than anything else. Honestly, where have you ever seen in North America an owner's manual that calls for, for example, a 15w-40 with an SN rating? You might find that with some of the Korean makes calling for a 5w-40 in SM or newer. But, nothing I've ever seen calls for a 15w-40 in SM or SN, yet they're on the shelf.
Nonetheless, it's still pays to exhibit caution. If I were forced to use an HDEO in a gasser, and one that technically lacked an SM or SN, I'd be searching for an E7, E9 or E6, E7, E9 first. Those specs tell me a little more than what CJ-4 or CK-4 on their own would. I'd also be cautious not to use a monograde specifically designed for Detroit Diesel two strokes, as well.
Does it really matter if it's not rated for gas engines? Can't you just use it regardless of gas engine rating? Isn't it the properties that matter and not the government designation?
It's not a government designation, but read my post above. I wouldn't have a problem, generally speaking. The SM or SN on most HDEOs is, really, more of an afterthought than anything else. Honestly, where have you ever seen in North America an owner's manual that calls for, for example, a 15w-40 with an SN rating? You might find that with some of the Korean makes calling for a 5w-40 in SM or newer. But, nothing I've ever seen calls for a 15w-40 in SM or SN, yet they're on the shelf.
Nonetheless, it's still pays to exhibit caution. If I were forced to use an HDEO in a gasser, and one that technically lacked an SM or SN, I'd be searching for an E7, E9 or E6, E7, E9 first. Those specs tell me a little more than what CJ-4 or CK-4 on their own would. I'd also be cautious not to use a monograde specifically designed for Detroit Diesel two strokes, as well.
Originally Posted By: Carlostrece
Does it really matter if it's not rated for gas engines? Can't you just use it regardless of gas engine rating? Isn't it the properties that matter and not the government designation?
It seems to me that if it does the job that's what matters. Who cares if the government gives you their nod of approval?
Am I missing something here?
Yes, your missing something.
Its not the Government.
The manufacturer of your vehicle determines what oil should be used to lubricate the engine.
The API has a long list of oil specifications of all types of oil.
The manufacturer of the engine selects which oil should be run,
The API certifies that oil on the back of the container with the "donut" stating it meets the rating claimed for the oil.
You can use any oil that you want for whatever reason you want or for any reason people in BITOG state or you can select an oil type recommended by the manufacturer of the engine (whom I think knows best) that is certified by the API to meet that specific oil rating. .
Its the American Petroleum Institute - Click here for the API
Does it really matter if it's not rated for gas engines? Can't you just use it regardless of gas engine rating? Isn't it the properties that matter and not the government designation?
It seems to me that if it does the job that's what matters. Who cares if the government gives you their nod of approval?
Am I missing something here?
Yes, your missing something.
Its not the Government.
The manufacturer of your vehicle determines what oil should be used to lubricate the engine.
The API has a long list of oil specifications of all types of oil.
The manufacturer of the engine selects which oil should be run,
The API certifies that oil on the back of the container with the "donut" stating it meets the rating claimed for the oil.
You can use any oil that you want for whatever reason you want or for any reason people in BITOG state or you can select an oil type recommended by the manufacturer of the engine (whom I think knows best) that is certified by the API to meet that specific oil rating. .
Its the American Petroleum Institute - Click here for the API
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Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: 6starprez
It's gasoline rated on the jug. Look at the last item in the ratings list. JASO MA (motorcycle, of which 99% are gas powered). I think they are doing this because State of Cali will not allow "obsolete" oil ratings to be sold. So SM is now obsolete and the new rating of SN will not fit the add pack for 5W-40 ... They may just be playing regulators games ...
Based on your photo, the latest batch of T6 5W-40 oil is NOT rated API SM/SN which the majority of modern day gasoline car engines require.
Thus, don't use it in your gas powered car that requires API SM/SN rated oil.
Correct?
Calm down folks...
CK-4 with no spark rating (SM, SN) will still have the phosphorus rating of the older spec CJ-4. In other words, aside from some formula tweaking, it should be very similar in performance and protection for those of you sold on it and currently running it in gas engines. Dual rated oils, such as CK-4/SN, have to conform to the lower phosphorus limits of the spark engine designation.
If you think this is confusing, head on over to the Chevron website where the choices for diesel applications are now in the double digits. Add in Ford's hot mess of WSS-M2C171-F1, and usually pretty quiet Powerstroke guys (in comparison to the Cummins crowd anyway) are now circling the room, muttering to themselves, and looking for a Valium.
In the history of this chat room, I've never seen such a lather about running an oil that was not specifically made for a particular application.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: 6starprez
It's gasoline rated on the jug. Look at the last item in the ratings list. JASO MA (motorcycle, of which 99% are gas powered). I think they are doing this because State of Cali will not allow "obsolete" oil ratings to be sold. So SM is now obsolete and the new rating of SN will not fit the add pack for 5W-40 ... They may just be playing regulators games ...
Based on your photo, the latest batch of T6 5W-40 oil is NOT rated API SM/SN which the majority of modern day gasoline car engines require.
Thus, don't use it in your gas powered car that requires API SM/SN rated oil.
Correct?
Calm down folks...
CK-4 with no spark rating (SM, SN) will still have the phosphorus rating of the older spec CJ-4. In other words, aside from some formula tweaking, it should be very similar in performance and protection for those of you sold on it and currently running it in gas engines. Dual rated oils, such as CK-4/SN, have to conform to the lower phosphorus limits of the spark engine designation.
If you think this is confusing, head on over to the Chevron website where the choices for diesel applications are now in the double digits. Add in Ford's hot mess of WSS-M2C171-F1, and usually pretty quiet Powerstroke guys (in comparison to the Cummins crowd anyway) are now circling the room, muttering to themselves, and looking for a Valium.
In the history of this chat room, I've never seen such a lather about running an oil that was not specifically made for a particular application.
Ah heck, I'll just switch to Golden Spectro instead - uh, yeah sure ... At $9/qt I don't think so.
If you'all are worried about it, just go buy your oil from the dealer with MFG Branded labels.
Shell has been good to me for a long time. My stuff has enough miles to not care. It needs oil, not labels and approvals. I'll run it after you'all do my field testing for me. I have enough in the stash and at the ranch for a year while this settles down
If you'all are worried about it, just go buy your oil from the dealer with MFG Branded labels.
Shell has been good to me for a long time. My stuff has enough miles to not care. It needs oil, not labels and approvals. I'll run it after you'all do my field testing for me. I have enough in the stash and at the ranch for a year while this settles down
FYI - Just posted a new VOA of Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 (CK-4) - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...API#Post4377748
Originally Posted By: GemStater
FYI - Just posted a new VOA of Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 (CK-4) - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...API#Post4377748
I saw that and much appreciate it. Thanks.
Looks like I could easily use it in an older gasser.
FYI - Just posted a new VOA of Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 (CK-4) - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...API#Post4377748
I saw that and much appreciate it. Thanks.
Looks like I could easily use it in an older gasser.
Could someone tell me if the T6 5W30 is suitable for my truck, the one in my signature? Also, same question re Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W30. I can get the Mobil cheaper since we have an account at work with the Mobil distributor.
Owners manual requires the oil to meet the GM6094 spec, in addition to being 5W30. T6 spec sheet does not list GM6094 as a spec it meets.
Owners manual requires the oil to meet the GM6094 spec, in addition to being 5W30. T6 spec sheet does not list GM6094 as a spec it meets.
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I would guess no then
Originally Posted By: George7941
Could someone tell me if the T6 5W30 is suitable for my truck, the one in my signature? Also, same question re Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W30. I can get the Mobil cheaper since we have an account at work with the Mobil distributor.
Owners manual requires the oil to meet the GM6094 spec, in addition to being 5W30. T6 spec sheet does not list GM6094 as a spec it meets.
The Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 (and Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30) would work fine in the Sierra. However, neither will list GM6094, because that specification is looking for a lower HTHS viscosity, ILSAC type 5w-30. If it were under warranty, an approved lube would be "safer." Of course, after warranty, too, an ordinary approved 5w-30, such as the Formula Shell Synthetic (or ordinary Formula Shell) would also work just fine for your truck. Both list the appropriate GM specification, if I recall correctly.
If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to use Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, or either version of Formula Shell. Whatever you can get readily, reliably, and at a sensible price would work just fine. Just for interest's sake, Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 and Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 are low phosphorus lubricants, for those nervous about cats.
Could someone tell me if the T6 5W30 is suitable for my truck, the one in my signature? Also, same question re Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W30. I can get the Mobil cheaper since we have an account at work with the Mobil distributor.
Owners manual requires the oil to meet the GM6094 spec, in addition to being 5W30. T6 spec sheet does not list GM6094 as a spec it meets.
The Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 (and Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30) would work fine in the Sierra. However, neither will list GM6094, because that specification is looking for a lower HTHS viscosity, ILSAC type 5w-30. If it were under warranty, an approved lube would be "safer." Of course, after warranty, too, an ordinary approved 5w-30, such as the Formula Shell Synthetic (or ordinary Formula Shell) would also work just fine for your truck. Both list the appropriate GM specification, if I recall correctly.
If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to use Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, or either version of Formula Shell. Whatever you can get readily, reliably, and at a sensible price would work just fine. Just for interest's sake, Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 and Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 are low phosphorus lubricants, for those nervous about cats.
So the higher HTHS viscosity of the diesel oils will not be an issue in the GM engine?
Is the GM requirement for lower HTHS viscosity purely for fuel economy considerations? The high HTHS viscosity of the diesel oils does not affect lubrication in the GM engine?
Is the GM requirement for lower HTHS viscosity purely for fuel economy considerations? The high HTHS viscosity of the diesel oils does not affect lubrication in the GM engine?
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It won't negatively affect your lubrication one bit. GM just happened to adopt the ILSAC type 30 grades early on for fuel economy reasons. It is, however, important to note that these lower HTHS oils have served GM very, very well over the decades.
Earlier on, as someone pointed out elsewhere here, GM also had better cold cranking performance as part of their spec, but that was made redundant by updates to SAE J300. If I had your truck, I'd be buying by availability and price. In my case, at least as it stands, that would quite likely be Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, given that I can get that for a price that rivals conventional. Any of the Formula Shell varieties would also have to be under consideration for the same reasons. The Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 is still an unknown to the local Shell distributor, so I can't even consider pricing, given they don't know of its existence, let alone have a price for me.
Any of the current 5w-XX grades have more than suitable winter starting properties for what you're likely to encounter. It is interesting to note, though, that Formula Shell Synthetic 5w-30 leapfrogs the requirement by a fairly decent margin, if that consideration matters to you in the least.
Earlier on, as someone pointed out elsewhere here, GM also had better cold cranking performance as part of their spec, but that was made redundant by updates to SAE J300. If I had your truck, I'd be buying by availability and price. In my case, at least as it stands, that would quite likely be Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, given that I can get that for a price that rivals conventional. Any of the Formula Shell varieties would also have to be under consideration for the same reasons. The Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 is still an unknown to the local Shell distributor, so I can't even consider pricing, given they don't know of its existence, let alone have a price for me.
Any of the current 5w-XX grades have more than suitable winter starting properties for what you're likely to encounter. It is interesting to note, though, that Formula Shell Synthetic 5w-30 leapfrogs the requirement by a fairly decent margin, if that consideration matters to you in the least.
Thanks, Garak. The reason I was concerned is that it does not work the other way - using a low HTHS viscosity oil in European cars, like BMWs, can damage the engine because they were designed for high HTHS viscosity oils.
No problem. The reverse usually isn't a problem, within reason. As long as you're not trying an SAE 40 or a 20w-50 during your next -40 spell, you should be just fine.
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