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DEX/Merc for customer "Y" #4358982
03/20/17 09:53 PM
03/20/17 09:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
Developed for a customer who wanted to market a full synthetic DEX/MERC formulation.
(elements less than 3 ppm not reported; ppm values were rounded)

BORON - 120
SODIUM - 3
CALCIUM - 28
PHOSPHORUS - 240
ZINC - 3

[email protected] 7.24
FP - 425
VI - 180

Not seen of course is the dual anti-oxidant, rust and corrosion inhibitors, FM's, and VII which is in a very low treatment level.

Dispersant is an ashless dispersant.

Good for a 35k OCI in most daily drivers for those who wishing to use a DEX/MERC in older vehicles.

Last edited by MolaKule; 03/20/17 09:56 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4358987
03/20/17 10:00 PM
03/20/17 10:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 258
Richmond, VA
DNVDMAX Offline
DNVDMAX  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 258
Richmond, VA
Sweet, where can I buy it? I'd give it a whirl in my K1500.


06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE M1 TDT 5w-40 FRAM Ultra
91 GMC K1500 5.7L 5w-30 Quaker State HM Bosch D+
72 Nova 350 SBC 74mm AirWerks Turbo 15w-40 HDEO
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: DNVDMAX] #4358991
03/20/17 10:03 PM
03/20/17 10:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
Sorry, we have ND agreements.


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4359006
03/20/17 10:21 PM
03/20/17 10:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 258
Richmond, VA
DNVDMAX Offline
DNVDMAX  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 258
Richmond, VA
Understood. What is your opinion of using air compressor oil or universal tractor oil in a non-electronic transmission applicsyion? I'm looking for FP benefit in a drag racing application. Clutch material is Alto Red Eagle. Specifically in a TH350 if your familiar with it.


06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE M1 TDT 5w-40 FRAM Ultra
91 GMC K1500 5.7L 5w-30 Quaker State HM Bosch D+
72 Nova 350 SBC 74mm AirWerks Turbo 15w-40 HDEO
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4359137
03/21/17 06:44 AM
03/21/17 06:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
What's the point of a full syn that's good for only 35k OCIs? Is that intended to be under extreme heat and towing/shear?

Is this to imply that the "D/M" (since dex is no longer licensed to earlier variants than VI) that can be had OTS may not be true to the intent of Dex IIIH and similar add packs in their licensing days?

Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: DNVDMAX] #4359244
03/21/17 09:39 AM
03/21/17 09:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: DNVDMAX
Understood. What is your opinion of using air compressor oil or universal tractor oil in a non-electronic transmission applicsyion? I'm looking for FP benefit in a drag racing application. Clutch material is Alto Red Eagle. Specifically in a TH350 if your familiar with it.


Oh yes, good racing transmission.

I would not use either of the above fluids because they do not contain the correct additive packages nor are their viscosities correct.

I would use a Type "F" such as Amsoil's "Power Shift" or Redline's LV Racing Fluid

https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=137&pcid=9.


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: JHZR2] #4359268
03/21/17 10:12 AM
03/21/17 10:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
What's the point of a full syn that's good for only 35k OCIs? Is that intended to be under extreme heat and towing/shear?

Is this to imply that the "D/M" (since dex is no longer licensed to earlier variants than VI) that can be had OTS may not be true to the intent of Dex IIIH and similar add packs in their licensing days?


It is to be marketed as a HM or heavy duty replacement for older trannies speced for DexronIII/Mercon, and for those owners who don't want to use a low viscosity fluid such as Dex VI in those older vehicles.

I don't do the marketing but the 35k suggested OCI is probably a CYA type of thing.

The additive package contains the shear stable FMs, anti-oxidants, and VII type of package.

It is my personal opinion that Dexron III(H) and prior fluids weren't to be left in for more than 40k because they sheared down to about 4.75 cSt within 20k miles.


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4359310
03/21/17 11:11 AM
03/21/17 11:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: DNVDMAX
Understood. What is your opinion of using air compressor oil or universal tractor oil in a non-electronic transmission applicsyion? I'm looking for FP benefit in a drag racing application. Clutch material is Alto Red Eagle. Specifically in a TH350 if your familiar with it.


Oh yes, good racing transmission.

I would not use either of the above fluids because they do not contain the correct additive packages nor are their viscosities correct.

I would use a Type "F" such as Amsoil's "Power Shift" or Redline's LV Racing Fluid

https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=137&pcid=9.


Here is a good reference for TH350's:

TH350


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4359655
03/21/17 05:32 PM
03/21/17 05:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 258
Richmond, VA
DNVDMAX Offline
DNVDMAX  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 258
Richmond, VA
Thanks!


06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE M1 TDT 5w-40 FRAM Ultra
91 GMC K1500 5.7L 5w-30 Quaker State HM Bosch D+
72 Nova 350 SBC 74mm AirWerks Turbo 15w-40 HDEO
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4365643
03/28/17 02:10 PM
03/28/17 02:10 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 457
Connecticut
Sam_Julier Offline
Sam_Julier  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 457
Connecticut
Would you please stop teasing us. I'm dying have a sticker in the engine bay stating: "Designed by Mola, made in America!"


2005 Highlander 3.3L PC Duron 0W30, 47k
1993 Volvo 245 Delo 10W30, 140k
1993 Volvo 244 Delo 10W30, 152k

Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4369517
04/01/17 08:23 PM
04/01/17 08:23 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,512
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,512
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
It is my personal opinion that Dexron III(H) and prior fluids weren't to be left in for more than 40k because they sheared down to about 4.75 cSt within 20k miles.



Shearing of ATF is not unlike shearing in engine oil; it may or may not have any negative affect.

I've seen about two hundred UOAs from the Allison 1000 series in GM light-duty trucks. There are guys that get away with running the old DexIIIh conventional fluids for up to 50k miles; some even more. Shears badly into the low 4s. But the wear metals never seem to be affected much by the sheared fluid. Conversely, I've seen TES-295 fluids hold their vis incredibly well, and still show about the same wear. My conclusion is that the Alli 1000, not unlike the Dmax engine sitting ahead of it, really does not care about brand/grade/base-stock.

I ran a UOA of my wife's old Villager ATF using a house-brand D/M fluid; after 30k miles it was a bit thin, but the wear was great and I extended out to 50k miles from there on out. That trans (a Nissan unit) was just a good wearing piece.

Certainly there are trannies that are sensitive to vis and need a good thick lube.

As with most things, it depends upon the application and use. Shearing of ATF may or may not have a consequence. If the equipment is well designed and has a good lube system, the small variations in lube characteristics won't matter. If the equipment has a weakness, then I think fluids matter much more.

Last edited by dnewton3; 04/01/17 08:28 PM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: dnewton3] #4371480
04/04/17 09:53 AM
04/04/17 09:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,246
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: dnewton3


...Certainly there are trannies that are sensitive to vis and need a good thick lube.

As with most things, it depends upon the application and use. Shearing of ATF may or may not have a consequence. If the equipment is well designed and has a good lube system, the small variations in lube characteristics won't matter. If the equipment has a weakness, then I think fluids matter much more.


Absolutely.

My main concern is with light duty transmissions that have steel pin bearings and plain (journal) bearings made with CDA 954/SAE 660 copper-alloy materials. There are still a few of the latter used in current AT designs.

Fluid film thickness is a major concern when temps get high, as many drivers may pull loads far beyond the intended design of the transmission.

AT Heat Study

I am not so concerned with the larger roller bearings and ball bearings as they are usually over specified with respect to the intended radial loads.

Another component often overlooked is the simple thrust washer with respect to fluid film thickness verses temps and wear.











Last edited by MolaKule; 04/04/17 09:56 AM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4439455
06/23/17 12:52 PM
06/23/17 12:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,038
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,038
pa
thanks Mola an interesting read for sure. we all appreciate info from a pro such as yourself!!

Re: DEX/Merc for customer "Y" [Re: MolaKule] #4441166
06/25/17 02:12 PM
06/25/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,870
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,870
Connecticut
Enjoyed that AT Heat study. Thanks MolaKule.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs

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