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Upping viscosity in my commodore #4347553
03/07/17 07:12 AM
03/07/17 07:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 20
Frankston, Victoria, Australia...
Tommyboy97 Offline OP
Tommyboy97  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 20
Frankston, Victoria, Australia...
Hi guys and girls
Currently in the process of doing my valley cover gaskets as i need to flush the old contaminated oil out i was thinking of going from 15w40 to 20w50 0r 15w50, yes the commodore has seen better days and i need to make the engine last for atleast another 4 years. As it sits it has sone 336,430 klms and has been on LPG since 2008 unknown k's when it was put on LPG as i bought it with no service history. Last service i put in Shell Helix HX5 15w40 (because it was on sale at supercheap) i was thinking of switching to Castrol GTX 20W50 or Penrite HPR Diesel 15w50
Thanks in advance


96 Vs ECOTEC Berlina Duel Fuel-Penrite HPR GAS 20W60
Ryco Syntec Z154 or Wesfil WZ154
336,000Kms
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4347600
03/07/17 08:18 AM
03/07/17 08:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 581
Arkansas
mazdamonky Offline
mazdamonky  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 581
Arkansas
Is your engine burning oil? If not, then I wouldn't worry. If so, I would try an Xw40 hm oil for a couple of oil changes. If that does not help, check for oil leaks outside of the engine. An Xw50 should be fine. 336000 KM isn't all that much. Around 210k mile in American terms. As long as everything runs fine, oil related issues would be the last of my worries.


2018 mazda3 hatch 2.5 263 miles
1985 rx7 1.1 98k miles
2002 protege 220k miles
1985 rx7 with a 5.0 swap
2002 Protege 299k miles Girlfriend's
4 more running cars in yard not mentioned
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4347665
03/07/17 10:10 AM
03/07/17 10:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,366
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,366
San Antonio, TX
I read when you run cars off LPG you need to run a tank of gas every few tanks to clean the valves off or else you'll get carboned up valves

Last edited by E150GT; 03/07/17 10:10 AM.

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4348028
03/07/17 05:58 PM
03/07/17 05:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
G'day Mate,

I think the modern mineral oils like Castrol GTX 15W40 and Shell Helix HX5 15W40 are good quality and good value for money. They are both American API SN and Euro ACEA A3/B3, two very good and up to date specs. Thread here
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4293744/1/

I find most 20W50 oils only carry older specs like API SJ or SL, so I tend to avoid these now days. The one exception is Valvoline MaxLife 20W50, it's a semi-synthetic that is SM and A3/B4.

I also avoid most 15W50 oils, as a few formulators here have commented that they tend to be a 15W40 with a higher polymer VII load, so nothing special, and better off sticking to the 15W40. I tried a 15W50 once and it didn't do me any favours.

What I do like is mixed-fleet HDEO's like Castrol RX Super 15W40, a stout mineral oil made for both petrol cars and diesel trucks. They are thicker than the regular PCMO 15W40, high zinc and rated API CI-4+ / SL and ACEA E7. Good strong stuff.

I also like Penrite HPR 30 which is a mineral 20W60 that is high zinc (anti-wear agent) and a top quality oil. I've run this in my old air-cooled motorcycles, and while GTX 20W50 sheared out and went bad in a few months, the HPR 30 held together and went the distance. It's SM and A3/B3. The HPR 30 was also my oil of choice when driving my old 202 Kingswood through the outback, and the only oil that stopped consumption on my old Audi where 15W50 would burn off like water.

Here are some local sales:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4347486/
That Penrite Vantage looks like good stuff to me.
Quote:
At Repco in Australia, 9 to 19 March.

Penrite Vantage 15W40, semi-synthetic
It's API SN and ACEA A3/B4
60% Off, $20 for 6L
KV100 = 14.8 cSt
Zn = 1090 ppm
SA = 1.29 %
TBN = 10.1

Last edited by SR5; 03/07/17 06:10 PM. Reason: Sales

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4348208
03/07/17 09:05 PM
03/07/17 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
And just to have it all in one place....

Shell Helix HX5 15W40 (SN / CF & A3/B3)
KV100 = 14.27 cSt
KV40 = 106.0
PP = - 45C
FP = 241C

Castrol GTX 15W40 "Modern Engine" (SN / CF & A3/B3)
KV100 = 14.5
KV40 = 113
PP = -36 C
TBN = 8.3
HTHS = 3.95 cP

Penrite Vantage 15W40, semi-synthetic (API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4, VW 502/505, MB 229.1)
KV100 = 14.8 cSt
KV40 = 109 cSt
Zn = 1090 ppm
SA = 1.29 %
TBN = 10.1

Castrol RX Super 15W40 HDEO ( API CI-4Plus / SL & ACEA E7)
KV100 = 15.9 cSt
KV40 = 125
PP = -33C
FP = 210C
SA = 1.39
TBN = 10.9

Penrite HPR30 20W60 mineral ( SN, A3/B3, VW 502/505)
KV100 = 24.2 cSt
KV40 = 229 cSt
Zn = 1570 ppm (ZDDP)
SA = 1.29 %
TBN = 9.7


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: E150GT] #4348282
03/07/17 11:16 PM
03/07/17 11:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,195
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,195
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: E150GT
I read when you run cars off LPG you need to run a tank of gas every few tanks to clean the valves off or else you'll get carboned up valves

That is not correct. I've had vehicles go hundreds of thousands of miles consecutively without one tank of gasoline, and the valves were clean. LPG was unkind to older style valves, particularly when hardening for unleaded fuel was in its infancy, but carbon wasn't an issue.

A bit of carbon on them might have been helpful. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: SR5] #4348343
03/08/17 02:57 AM
03/08/17 02:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
Correction

Originally Posted By: SR5

Penrite HPR30 20W60 mineral ( SM, A3/B3, VW 502/505)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4348346
03/08/17 03:21 AM
03/08/17 03:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,654
Down Under
Originally Posted By: Tommyboy97
or Penrite HPR Diesel 15w50

I've never used that one, but it looks OK to me. It's a semi-synthetic, and being diesel it should be shear stable compared to a PCMO 15W50

Penrite HPR Diesel 15, 15W50, semi-synthetic (API CI-4/SL, ACEA A3/B4 & E7, and lots of OEMs like MB 228.3, Volvo VDS-3, etc)
KV 100 = 19.7 cSt
KV40 = 166 cSt
Zinc = 1220 ppm
SA = 1.34 %
TBN = 10.7

Also I've just noticed that Castrol have updated the GTX 20W50 data sheet. Last year in 2016 it was API SL, but now in 2017 it's API SN.

GTX 20W50 API SL
KV100 = 17.6 cSt
KV40 = 157 cSt
SA = 0.98 %
PP = -36 C
FP = 215 C

GTX 20W50 API SN/CF
KV100 = 18.3 cSt
KV40 = 171 cSt
SA = 0.8 %
PP = -30 C
FP = 201 C

I would go the high TBN, high Zinc, high Sulphated Ash Penrite myself, out of these three 50 grades. That's if you want a 50 grade.

If your not consuming oil, I would go the Penrite Vantage 15W40 semi-synthetic that is on sale right now. I would use it even is not on sale. Just my 2 cents.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4348352
03/08/17 04:07 AM
03/08/17 04:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,531
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,531
'Stralia
Spec for my VS Caprice per the manual (I've got the supercharged 6 but was same for all of them) was 20W50, with 15W40 for prolonged operation in the Snow.

Not using oil ?

Then a decent 15W40 will do you well, and even if you do use a bit, the Penrite Vantage special at Repco (per SR5s post will do you well).

If you want 20W50, then any of the brand names bought on special will suit too.

Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4348377
03/08/17 06:52 AM
03/08/17 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,115
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,115
Dallas,Tx USA
I say go for the GTX 20W50 (see my uoa).


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30

Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4349979
03/09/17 10:53 PM
03/09/17 10:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 488
Australia
B320i Offline
B320i  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 488
Australia
I'd say a 15w-40 will be perfectly fine for this engine (the '96 simply has an upgraded Buick 3800, correct?). If its the Buick 3800 V6 I think you've got - the ejavascript:%20void(0)ngine would spec. an xW-30 in the USA - but the extra thickness won't do any harm at this point.

Bear in mind LPG is a much cleaner-burning fuel than Petrol (gasoline), so contamination will not be anywhere near as great. With that considered, diesel oil is almost certainly overkill. The only thing worth considering about LPG is it is a very "wet burning" fuel, so excess moisture in the oil could become an issue if you only short-trip the car.

At the end of the day, you've got a nice simple car that gets you from A-B. I'd certainly suggest driving it "until the wheels fall off."
Also interesting you note no issues with the LPG, I've certainly rumours the Commodores don't take well to LPG, but have a mate with a similar-aged ute that runs on gas only, no issues and goes like stink.


'93 BMW 320i 217,000km - Valvoline Engine-Armour 15w40, Mann Filter.
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4532589
10/03/17 04:31 AM
10/03/17 04:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 20
Frankston, Victoria, Australia...
Tommyboy97 Offline OP
Tommyboy97  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 20
Frankston, Victoria, Australia...
Sorry to dig up an old thread but I have decided to go with Penrite HPR GAS 20w60


96 Vs ECOTEC Berlina Duel Fuel-Penrite HPR GAS 20W60
Ryco Syntec Z154 or Wesfil WZ154
336,000Kms
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4532642
10/03/17 05:54 AM
10/03/17 05:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 488
Australia
B320i Offline
B320i  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 488
Australia
Considering the Buick 3800 V6 (what's used in the Commodore) would've carried a 10w30 recommendation in the U.S.A., I'd probably suggest 20w60 is overkill unless you have major oil burning issues or thrashing the engine with performance mods. Something in the xW-40 grade can usually be had for a steal if you keep an eye out for sales at Supercheap and the likes.

A mate of mine has a similarly-aged Commodore with dual LPG tanks, plus the factory petrol tank (fuel pump dead, and buried underneath gas tank, so its dedicated LPG presently). Mileage stands around the same as yours, too. The automatic has just had a rebuild, and the thing will still easily spin its' wheels. Much as I rag on Commodores in particular, they certainly have a decent drivetrain in them.


'93 BMW 320i 217,000km - Valvoline Engine-Armour 15w40, Mann Filter.
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4532658
10/03/17 06:22 AM
10/03/17 06:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 20
Frankston, Victoria, Australia...
Tommyboy97 Offline OP
Tommyboy97  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 20
Frankston, Victoria, Australia...
I spoke to my brother in law who is an expert in all things automotive (he has a diploma in automotive and the experience to match) he said because it so old, the high k's and I recently compression tested it and its right on the minimum spec so that's why he suggested the gas 20w60


96 Vs ECOTEC Berlina Duel Fuel-Penrite HPR GAS 20W60
Ryco Syntec Z154 or Wesfil WZ154
336,000Kms
Re: Upping viscosity in my commodore [Re: Tommyboy97] #4532681
10/03/17 06:55 AM
10/03/17 06:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,472
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,472
Malaysia
Quote:
Considering the Buick 3800 V6 (what's used in the Commodore) would've carried a 10w30 recommendation in the U.S.A.............,

Bearing in mind this recommendation is CAFE/policy-driven .... which I would ignore ..... in OP's context.

Originally Posted By: Tommyboy97
I spoke to my brother in law who is an expert in all things automotive (he has a diploma in automotive and the experience to match) he said because it so old, the high k's and I recently compression tested it and its right on the minimum spec so that's why he suggested the gas 20w60

It makes perfect sense, though it's out of reach for me.

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